Shane Cassells (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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42. To ask the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment his plans to reform the funding model for public service broadcasting in view of the fact that there is an evasion rate of 14.5% of the television licence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [49087/17]

Shane Cassells (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I ask this question in the context of the appearance before the Committee of Public Accounts of the Secretary General of the Department, Mr. Mark Griffin, two weeks ago to account for the Department's accounts and expenditure. The largest item of expenditure, accounting for more than half of all departmental spending, was €241 million on broadcasting. In response to questions from me, Mr. Griffin acknowledged that the funding model for public service broadcasting was broken, with television licence evasion rates of 14.5% resulting in lost revenue of approximately €40 million per annum. In light of these figures and the comments of the Secretary General, what are the Minister's plans to reform the funding model for public service broadcasting? I am not trying to catch the Minister out on this issue. I have a great interest in and passion for public service broadcasting and the issue needs to be addressed.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I recognise the important part that public service broadcasters play in our democratic society. The provision of stable and adequate funding is essential to ensuring the continued delivery of their role in this regard. I am very much aware, however, of the challenges that face the existing television licence system, including the current unacceptable levels of evasion.  While the evasion rate has fallen from 15.3% at the end of 2013 to the current rate of 14.6%, it is still very high.

  In light of changes in technology and viewing habits, I accept that the current system needs to be reformed. Having said that, despite its limitations, it is important I ensure the current system works as an effective collection mechanism. In that context, my Department has been working with An Post and RTÉ on an ongoing basis in order that all steps are being taken to ensure the system is working as effectively as possible. Marketing campaigns, more evening and weekend inspections and the appointment of additional temporary inspectors are just some of the initiatives utilised to enhance sales and improve compliance rates.

I obtained Government approval earlier this year to draft a number of legislative amendments to the Broadcasting Act 2009, including amendments to allow for the tendering of television licence fee collection.  The proposed amendments are under pre-legislative scrutiny by the Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment. The committee is also considering the longer-term issue of the future funding of public service media. Its work is ongoing and it hosted a very useful consultative forum on this important topic on 7 July last. I look forward to receiving the joint committee's report, which will inform consideration of future funding options. In the meantime, there will be no change to the existing television licence fee arrangements, and An Post continues to work as the issuing agent for television licences in accordance with section 145 of the Broadcasting Act 2009.

Shane Cassells (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The grant to RTÉ last year was €6.5 million less than the Estimate because income from television licence sales was lower than anticipated. The amount of the grant in 2016 was €179 million, which is roughly in line with the figure for 2015. The €6.5 million shortfall on the Estimate amounts to 40,000 licence payments of €160. While the licence fee has not increased since 2008, the population and number of households have increased in the past decade. Despite this, RTÉ income has declined by more than 10% and the uncollected fees for television sets exceed RTÉ's annual losses. This means others must pick up the tab for those who do not pay.

The broader issue is whether and how we will maintain the public service broadcasting model. Are we to say to hell with the current approach and embrace commercialisation of broadcasting? Will we follow in the footsteps of the United States where President Donald Trump tunes into Fox News to make sure he is doing okay? I do not believe we will go down that route because coverage of events such as the 1916 commemorations and sporting events would cease. In such circumstances, I do not believe the international rules game between Ireland and Australia would have been broadcast last Saturday morning. RTÉ also broadcasts the Ard-Fheiseanna of all the main political parties, including Sinn Féin's Ard-Fheis at the weekend. A fundamental question must be addressed regarding our commitment on this score.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I do not disagree with anything the Deputy said. The system needs to be reformed and the joint committee is actively considering the issue. A range of funding models are utilised in the European Union, with some member states having licence fees and others funding public service broadcasting from taxation or charging a fee linked to electricity bills. Finland, for example, has a broadcasting tax in place.

There are two aspects to the decline in licence fee income, namely, the evasion rate and the 9% of households which indicate they do not have a television. The latter figure is not surprising given the change in devices used for viewing content. The current focus is on the evasion rate. The evasion rate in the United Kingdom, for example, is approximately half the rate here. Licence fee evasion has a significant impact on RTÉ's income and we are examining how we can tackle the issue. A broader, longer-term issue also arises with regard to the funding of public service broadcasting. I look forward to the recommendations the joint committee will make on this issue.

Shane Cassells (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The third reason for the decline in income is that advertisers are copping on that viewing habits are changing. Services such as Netflix are also having an impact. The Minister is correct to focus on evasion. I would like to hear his thoughts on the recommendation that Revenue should become involved in collecting television licence fees.

The print media model is broken and television is heading in the same direction. Deputy Dooley is introducing proposals on the print media to ensure we have an independent media model which works for the country.

The Minister is also correct that the way in which people access news is changing. Either we value the product or we do not value it, and if the latter is the case, we will move towards the broadcasting model in place in the United States. Colm McCarthy wrote an analysis earlier this year in which he stated that the "advent of laptops and smartphones, equally capable of accessing television broadcasts, has finally brought it home to policymakers that this antiquated and cumbersome method of raising revenue has no place in a modern fiscal system". That may be the case, but public service broadcasting must also be able to wash its own face, so to speak. Ultimately, the issue is whether the Government and citizens value it. I ask the Minister to set out his view on the Government's commitment to public service broadcasting.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I have reiterated several times my commitment to public service broadcasting and news content. While I have accepted that this comes at a significant cost, we are very lucky in terms of the way in which news content is disseminated in this country and the balance it provides. This balance is not provided in other countries, including the United States, the example the Deputy cited. One could give other examples across Europe where particular media outlets give a particular slant on the news. We should be proud that this is not the case here.

The proportion of the population who listen to the radio is probably higher in Ireland than anywhere else in the world. Moreover, community radio is thriving to a greater extent than anywhere else on the planet.

I accept that the existing model needs to be reformed and the Revenue Commissioners could be a mechanism for doing so. There are a number of options available for a long-term funding model. What we fund and how we fund it must be examined. As I stated, I am waiting for the joint committee to submit a report to me on this matter. In the interim, it is intended to introduce legislation to amend the Broadcasting Act 2009 to address the issue of evasion in the short term