Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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49. To ask the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht the way in which she will ensure that all bodies under her Department’s remit and those in receipt of funding from her Department make sufficient efforts to ensure that bullying and harassment do not happen in the workplace; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [47854/17]

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I will forgo a reading of the question and let the Minister answer it. Is that okay?

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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That is helpful.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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It is a matter for the boards and directors or CEOs of the bodies funded by my Department, including those bodies directly under my Department's remit, to ensure that as employers they are compliant with all aspects of employment rights legislation, including those aspects relating to bullying and harassment in the workplace.

Everyone is entitled to be treated with respect, dignity, fairness and equality in the workplace. In recent times, there have been a number of alarming allegations and reports of sexual harassment and bullying in the workplace relating to the arts community. While all workplaces are obliged to comply with employment legislation, I have identified a number of actions that I can take as Minister in respect of the bodies reporting to my Department.

The intention is to help boards under the aegis of my Department fulfil their functions more effectively and to support them in ensuring that policies on equality and respect in the workforce operate effectively and in line with best practice. These actions include arranging separate dedicated governance workshops for board members and senior staff, with a particular emphasis on issues relating to bullying, abuse of power and sexual harassment in the workplace; working on a collaborative basis with the Arts Council to make similar training available to other cultural organisations and arts centres around the country at a series of regional information days; highlighting once again to bodies reporting to the Department the nature of their legal obligations by seeking assurances of their compliance with obligations under employment legislation; and accelerating a planned review of compliance by bodies reporting to the Department with the requirements of the Code of Practice for the Governance of State Bodies.

I am confident that these support measures will contribute to the further enhancement of existing governance structures in bodies reporting to my Department.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I had submitted this question before the Minister's announcement on 9 November in which she said she intends to introduce measures to address harassment and abuse of power in the arts and the cultural sector. This is important, and I acknowledge that the Government appeared to go to some lengths to distance itself from the controversies that erupted around the Gate Theatre and the National Museum of Ireland. Cultural institutions and our other national institutions must have that oversight from the Minister and her Department. It would be most helpful to have measures in place in this regard because, as Deputy Burton quite rightly pointed out, if there is no way to support the board and if the facility is not in place for those affected to address these matters, there is nowhere for people to go or speak out. It is such a pity that a young woman had to go on social media before her voice was heard and acted on.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy will appreciate, I am limited in what I can do regarding private organisations and organisations funded independently by State agencies, for example, the Gate, where HR issues are a matter for the boards and management. All workplaces are obliged to comply with employment legislation. Legally, the boards of national cultural institutions and agencies are responsible for good governance practice. However, it is my intention to help boards fulfil their functions more effectively. I want to support them in ensuring that policies on equality and respect in the workforce operate effectively. As I said, I am meeting the leaders of the theatres on Thursday. I want to hear from them and work with them in order to hear their issues and hear how they feel this issue can be satisfactorily addressed. We must change the culture in these organisations. That is the most important thing.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister keeps saying in all her replies to everyone around the House that she cannot interfere in HR matters.

However, if HR and its board of management still do not have the facilities to deal with issues, that is our problem as legislators. We cannot wash our hands of it. Was the Minister aware of the findings of wide-scale harassment reported in a survey by Irish Equity last year? SIPTU arts officer, Karan O'Loughlin, told RTÉ "News At One" that SIPTU went to the Arts Council as early as 2016 to ask it to help SIPTU to deal with the bullying and harassment in the sector by connecting funding to robust anti-bullying procedures, and the Arts Council refused. It says it was not its business. After everything that has transpired over the last two weeks, it is our business to have supports in place so that this does not happen.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I was not aware of the SIPTU survey. I did not see. I heard about it on the radio. A number of Deputies reminded me ten or 15 minutes ago that the Arts Council is independent. It is independent and I cannot interfere-----

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister cannot say it is not her responsibility. The Arts Council is independent but she still has to put the measures in place.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I cannot-----

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Allow the Minister to speak without interruption.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Arts Council is independent in its funding of these arts organisations.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I accept that but the Minister must have criteria in place.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I cannot-----

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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If Deputy Smyth is not happy with the answers, I have no control over them.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I cannot interfere in private organisations. There is plenty of good legislation that these organisations are meant to comply with-----

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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There was not in this case.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Organisations should have policies and procedures in place which they should follow.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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They did not. That is the point.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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These organisations are breaking the law if they do not follow those procedures. If somebody is breaking the law, the organisations should go to the gardaí.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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The document I have here is the Irish Equity document on bullying and harassment. I am amazed that the Minister has not yet read it. It shockingly states that 60% of workers in the arts have been bullied while at work and that 70% of those bullied did not report it, which is incredible. It states that 60% of people who work in the arts work in a freelance manner and those two issues are by no means unrelated because the precarious nature of work within the arts means there is undue employer power and as a result there is exploitation of workers. It seems that the Minister is becoming the Minister for outsourcing responsibility.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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No.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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There is a crisis in the sector. The Minister has levers of control. One is money. The Minister can refuse to fund organisations that are not working properly. She says there are laws and policies. They are patently not working. A person's only current recourse to justice is to go to the front page of a national newspaper or to minister Joe Duffy and that is not good enough.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Arts Council funds these art centres, theatres and other organisations. If I put conditions on Arts Council funding to any of these organisations, Deputy Tóibín will be the first person to say that I am interfering in the Arts Council funding.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That is not true.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Not for workers' rights.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I cannot impose conditions. The Arts Council has conditions and asks the organisations that receive funding to certify that they comply with a number of different issues and laws.

Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Why is it not happening?

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Is it working?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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It cannot micromanage any organisation and the Deputies know that. The people running these organisations have a responsibility to do it properly. If they are working outside the law, that is against the law-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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They should not be funded.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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-----and is improper.