Dáil debates

Wednesday, 25 October 2017

Other Questions

Residential Institutions Statutory Fund Board

5:10 pm

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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51. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the status of the review of Caranua; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45000/17]

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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What is the status of the review of Caranua? Has it been completed and when is it to be published? When will it be discussed in the House? The Minister knows there is a background to the issue and that the Dáil debated having a full review, as was promised from the beginning. He is also aware of the upset among applicants to Caranua. While I will not dwell on it at this point, I certainly will return to it following the Minister's answer.

5:20 pm

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The review under way is confined to the issue of eligibility to apply to the organisation for support.

The terms of reference of the review of eligibility, a draft of which was published on my Department's website earlier this year, provided for an initial phase involving a review of Caranua's expenditure to date and an estimation of the projected expenditure, taking into account applications on hand and anticipated further applications together with an estimation of any possible underspend of the available funding. This initial phase of the review is now at an advanced stage and I hope to receive a report on it shortly.

If the findings of this initial phase indicate that an underspend of the €110 million in funding available to Caranua is likely, a consultation process will then be initiated with stakeholders about an expansion of the eligibility criteria, including identification of the groups that could be considered for inclusion in any expansion. The consultation process would seek to identify possible arrangements for verifying eligibility, resource implications and related issues. If the findings indicate that an underspend was unlikely, the review will conclude at that point. It should be noted also that any proposal to widen eligibility would require legislation.

It is worth noting that to date Caranua has received 6,000 applications and expended some €66 million in support of over 4,000 applicants.

The Deputy will recall the debate in this House in May on a Private Members' motion in her name and that of others relating to Caranua's operations. The amended motion accepted by the House called on the Government to take a number of specific actions regarding Caranua. In response, Caranua has advised that it is reviewing its customer charter in consultation with stakeholders with a view to making data available on whether targets for responses to phone calls and correspondence are being met. Data on feedback and complaints received are also to be made available. Caranua is also working to increase the level of face-to-face engagement with applicants. It is doing this through scheduled face-to-face meetings in various venues in Dublin and in the regions. It should also be noted that the recent move by Caranua to new office accommodation will facilitate a greater level of face-to-face engagement with applicants than had previously been possible. Finally, I understand that Caranua is working to enhance the level of statistics it provides to my Department and to the public on waiting times for processing and communicating decisions.

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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That is the same reply I got over a month ago, at which stage the Minister told me in a written reply that the report was nearing completion. Over a month later he is telling me the same thing. I do not wish to argue with the Minister at all, but he must place this question and answer in the context of people who are extremely upset. My office is in constant receipt of urgent representation from applicants, as I am sure are other Deputies' offices. One applicant rang my office today to confirm that he is on hunger strike along with a number of other people, such is their dissatisfaction with the service. The reason I used my Private Members' time on this matter was to indicate to the Dáil the level of dissatisfaction with it, the lack of monitoring by the Department of Education and Skills over it, a list of contracts that had never been sanctioned - it looked like they were sanctioned retrospectively - and many other issues that we raised in the Dáil. We appealed to the Minister to carry out a full review. Not alone did he not do that, but the limited review he is carrying out still has not been completed. May I have a date? When will it be published, and when can we discuss it?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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When Caranua has completed its work, it will report to me. This is the latest that I have. The reply to the Deputy's question states that I hope to receive the report shortly. I presume that represents very considerable progress on the work but I am also pointing out that since our debate earlier, there have been significant efforts and work by Caranua with my Department to ensure that the procedures regarding customer service support are improved. The very issues that were raised here about delays, face-to-face time and the ways in which issues were being handled were issues of particular concern. The Department and Caranua have been taking steps to address these, and I hope people are seeing some improvement as a result. There is an appeal process. We will monitor the level of appeals and complaints that occur in an attempt to make sure that the changes being made are being reflected in better performance regarding those very sensitive areas. I hope there is improvement being reflected in the efforts being made in the experience of those dealing with Caranua.

Photo of Declan BreathnachDeclan Breathnach (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I ask Deputy Connolly to be brief because I want to get-----

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I appreciate that the Minister is referring to changes that have been brought in but I do not know whether he appreciates the seriousness of what I have just said about the representations to my office, and I am not alone in this regard. Someone has gone on hunger strike. I am only repeating what he has told my office and a number of other people, and for the second time we have passed that correspondence on to the Taoiseach's office today.

Second, I understand that Caranua is functioning without a CEO. I have separately asked the Minister whether that is correct and I have also tabled a Dáil question on the matter. Perhaps the Minister could confirm, since he is referring to these changes, who is in charge pushing these changes. Is a CEO in place? I do not wish to stray into employment law or anything like that, but it is a matter of public concern whether a CEO is in place. If not, is someone else in place steering these changes, and may I have a precise date for the publication of the limited report?

Photo of Declan BreathnachDeclan Breathnach (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Minister to be very brief. I want to accommodate Deputy Shortall-----

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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To be fair to anyone who is employed under a contract and entitled if they are sick to be on sick leave, it is unfair to present the matter in the way in which the Deputy is presenting it. Of course during periods of leave the organisation is properly managed and has a proper board that is very attentive to its role. It is not holding up the work that is going on. I absolutely understand the sensitivity of the work that is involved. These are people who have suffered hugely at the hands of institutions and the State and we must deal with them very fairly. At the same time, I also realise the constraints on a board such as Caranua's, which must comply with what has been decided by the Legislature and the framework within which it must administer its decisions. This has been a source of friction, but I hope these new changes will help to ease those tensions.

Photo of Declan BreathnachDeclan Breathnach (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Shortall has a very short space of time. I will allow her 30 seconds to introduce her question and perhaps one supplementary question.