Dáil debates

Wednesday, 25 October 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions

National Risk Assessment

1:20 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the publication of the final national risk assessment 2017 overview of strategic risks. [41719/17]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the status of the national risk assessment 2017 overview of strategic risks. [43822/17]

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.

The 2017 national risk assessment was published on 29 August. This is the fourth national risk assessment produced by the Government. It aims to provide an overview of strategic risks facing the country. It is focused on the identification of risk and is not intended to replicate or displace the detailed risk management strategies across Departments and agencies in respect of individual risks. Instead, the assessment aims to stimulate consideration within Government, and more widely in public debate, on the strategic risks that face the country over the medium and long term. As in previous years, the national risk assessment was prepared in collaboration with a steering group of Departments and agencies. It follows an open policy debate organised by my Department and a process of public consultation.

Since its inception, the process has highlighted a number of important strategic risks at an early stage. Indeed, a number of risks identified have since come to pass or become increasingly prominent in the intervening years, including withdrawal of the UK from the European Union. This year's assessment states that Brexit is an overarching theme that could have far reaching impacts on nearly all aspects of national life, while also noting the importance of keeping sight of our other strategic risks. Other risks identified include possible changes to US trade and tax policy, risks arising from continued housing supply constraints, climate change, technological risks, competitiveness pressures and changing demographics.

Many of the risks identified are being resolved through policies and actions in place or being developed by relevant Departments. Others are largely dependent on developments at international level over which we have little control. However, the purpose of this process is to encourage honest and open discussion about strategic risks facing the country, including in the Oireachtas.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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If one did not want to sleep at night, one should read the national risk assessment report, which outlines everything that could potentially befall us. The issue of Brexit is central to the assessment but changes to our climate have the potential for even greater harm. We have witnessed Hurricane Ophelia and the enormous damage that it did to our country, including the taking of three lives. Many parts of the country meanwhile are still cleaning up following Storm Brian. It is clear our weather patterns are changing and that reflects climate change internationally. We cannot individually hide from stronger and more violent storms and increased rainfall.

I am sure the Taoiseach will be aware that a court challenge has been lodged to the national mitigation plan. Friends of the Irish Environment claim approval of the plan should be quashed on several grounds, including that it fails to specify measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions as it is required to do. They also claim that the plan does not comply with the requirements of the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015. Since the House has not even debated the mitigation plan, what is the Taoiseach's response to these charges? When will he afford the House a proper opportunity to debate the issue of climate change in general and, more specifically, our strategies to deal with it?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I support the call for time to be set aside to discuss climate change and all the consequences it has for people on this island and worldwide. The Government could usefully set aside time to discuss the national risk assessment report. I would like to address one issue, which is Brexit. Research conducted by the European Commission's agricultural and rural affairs committee warns that a hard Brexit with no deal could wipe out almost 10% of the State's GDP and this will most severely affect agriculture. That is a more serious outcome than was previously envisaged by those who have spoken on this issue. Has the Taoiseach seen the report? If so, has he any comment on it?

Earlier this week, Theresa May told her parliament that no physical infrastructure would be imposed on the Border after Britain leaves the EU. I do not know how she can say that because if we do not have the type of deal Sinn Féin has argued for, which would provide for special status for the North within the EU, member states will enforce border controls and so on. Did the British Prime Minister give the Taoiseach in their recent 40 minute telephone conversation any idea of how Britain intends to achieve this?

Mr. Barnier's staff have started work on drafting a withdrawal treaty. Has the Taoiseach instructed our officials to ensure the Good Friday Agreement is included as an annex to such a treaty? Did he raise this at last week's Council meeting or at any bilateral meetings with other European leaders? Did he raise it yesterday with President Macron?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The work of the emergency services and State agencies during the recent storms was incredibly impressive, as was the work of the National Emergency Co-ordination Centre. Given the Taoiseach has talked about how the structures worked well, I am sure he will agree that we should acknowledge the work of Deputy O'Dea who, as Minister for Defence, created the current structures and implemented the framework which is still in place today. I hope the Taoiseach's stated desire last July to rebrand the structures along the lines of the UK COBRA committee will be shelved because an attempt to centralise the spotlight goes directly against the lead agency principle, which is what is working. Will he outline to the House what changes, if any, are planned in that regard?

What is the status of the new framework document, which has been ready for almost two years but which has yet to be published? While the national risk assessment identifies climate-related events as an increasing risk, it has been consistent in pointing to cyber-related risks as posing the greatest threat to us. What measures are envisaged to take action in this area? For example, we have strict laws concerning election spending and activity. Given what has been evident in the US, France, the Brexit referendum and a host of small countries, has the Taoiseach initiated any work to protect the integrity of our own elections?

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I echo the previous three Deputies who have raised the problem we have in that we are identifying climate as a risk but any assessment of our response to it in either mitigation or adoption is not being taken seriously. I echo the calls for further debate in that regard.

I will suggest one other area which is missing from the document. The definition of risk, timescales and so on is dependent on the timeframe one is considering. However, it seems to me that we are facing an increasing risk in Ireland and across the world from the reduction of biodiversity that is occurring. It is a different risk and it may not be immediate but it is fundamental. We are seeing it in the loss of species in the seas, in the lost fertility of our soils and in the halving of the volumes of insect life in our country over the past 30 or 40 years. People might say that we can manage each on its own and that it is not a huge risk to the country but combined, when we continue to degrade our environment and allow it to get to a stage where it will not be able to recover, I argue it is the most fundamental risk. The climate issue is related because restoring wildlife will help us to manage climate in a variety of ways. Why is it that we do not include that sort of biological risk of the destruction of our environment, which is happening, included within the risks?

1:30 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I want to talk about the risk of fire. After the Grenfell Tower fire, much concern was expressed about the housing stock in this country. Kevin Hollingsworth, a chartered surveyor, stated that up to 40% of the housing stock built during the Celtic Tiger period was non-compliant with fire safety standards and compartmentation requirements to stop the spread of fire and there were promises of reviews of multi-storey buildings. I would like to know what became of all of that concern and when we will hear about these risks. I have pressed this issue on a number of occasions and I am getting slightly frustrated now. I have engaged with the Minister of State, Deputy Doyle, on issues to do with the technical guidance documents dealing with fire safety and possible problems with them, and I think he is acting in good faith. However, we have been trying to get a meeting with officials at the Department responsible for the environment to discuss these issues and serious allegations about the defective nature of the fire safety regulations and compliance with fire safety. People's lives are seriously at risk. I have seen estates in Dublin which fire consultants tell me are an immediate and imminent fire hazard and where we could have repeats of the Grenfell Tower fire. I want that meeting with officials of the Department of the Taoiseach and the relevant Minister, be it Deputy English or whoever, to happen. We have been messed around for weeks. It is a serious, urgent and life-threatening risk if the scale of breaches of fire safety in residential buildings in this country are anything like what Kevin Hollingsworth says they are.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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On Storm Ophelia, I am advised this morning by ESB Networks that all homes and businesses have now been reconnected to the electricity network. I join with others in acknowledging the phenomenal work of the staff of ESB Networks, the assistance we received ScottishPower and others in Britain and from Électricité de France, EDF, and Réseau de Transport d'Électricité, RTE, in France, which also came to help.

I have no difficulty in acknowledging the role of the former Minister for Defence, Deputy Willie O'Dea, in establishing the Office of Emergency Planning, which showed its worth last week. I do not propose to change the approach fundamentally but we should always look at what was done well and what could have been done better after any major national crisis or serious event and make changes on foot of that review. Cabinet committee F, which is similar to the COBRA committee in the UK but not the same, is not designed to replace the Office of Emergency Planning but is something separate. It is an opportunity for Ministers, in the form of a Cabinet sub-committee, to get together with the Garda Commissioner, the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces and others to understand better threats such as terrorism or cyberattacks and consider what we can do to prevent those or prepare to manage them should they occur. We have only had one meeting so far and another one is scheduled to be held in the next few weeks. We have not considered the risk of outside bodies or entities trying to interfere in our elections and perhaps we should give that consideration given that it is a real problem and is happening all over the world now. I understand that it may even have happened in Catalonia recently, with external actors spreading fake news and things such as that. It should be a matter of concern for all of us.

I am aware of the court challenge to the national adaptation plan and the Government will respond to that challenge. I would welcome a debate in this House on climate change, the national planning framework and the capital plan. However, scheduling such matters is a matter for the Business Committee, of which I am not a member.

I have seen the latest reports on Brexit and how it may impact our economy. I am not sure we need another report to tell us that a hard Brexit would damage our economy. I think we all know that. The work that I am doing is trying to prevent it. We are doing everything that we can to prevent that outcome.

I welcome Prime Minister's May's strengthening of her language in recent weeks ruling out any physical infrastructure on the Border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. That is very welcome. I said it at the dinner in Brussels and unequivocally restated it in the House of Commons. As is often the case with the statements from the UK Government, while the words are welcome and we agree with the sentiments, we need to see them backed up with the detail on how they can be written into international agreements and law, which is what is required. We do not quite have that yet, which is one of the reasons sufficient progress has not been made.

The Good Friday Agreement is always raised in meetings to do with Brexit. It was raised in my meeting with President Macron yesterday and it was raised at the European Council meeting last week. Whether it is necessary to include it as an annexe to the UK exit treaty is a different matter. It is already a recognised international agreement. I simply do not know at this stage if it would be beneficial to add it as an annexe to that treaty but I will give it further thought.

The risk to biodiversity can be considered for the 2018 national risk assessment. If Deputy Eamon Ryan would like to make a proposal or submission on it, I will make sure that the people in my Department who co-ordinate this will take a look at it.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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To hell with fire safety, it would appear. I asked about fire safety.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I am out of time.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Taoiseach wants to-----

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I think there was a request for a meeting.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have been asking for two weeks.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I suggest that the relevant people's offices speak to each other and try to organise it.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We have been trying that.