Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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4. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport the position regarding the industrial relations situation in Irish Rail; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42237/17]

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Question No. 4 is in the name of Deputy Barry. Permission has been given to Deputy Paul Murphy to ask it.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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A leopard clearly does not change its spots. The exchange between the Minister and Deputy Munster was quite revealing. We have a Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport who begrudges spending public money on developing public transport. I suspect I know the answer to my question, which is whether the Minister accepts responsibility for being obliged to intervene in the situation in Irish Rail. Workers have been pushed to take strike action at the end of the month by the actions of management. The Minister's intervention should take the form of paying what was recommended by the National Transport Authority, NTA, namely, €125 million to combat underfunding over the previous six years.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy for his question. He is anticipating something a little prematurely but I will, of course, take into account what he has to say. I share his disappointment regarding last week’s news that the discussions between unions and Iarnród Éireann led by the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, ended without agreement.

I have responsibility for policy and overall funding for public transport. As I have previously stated, the State already makes a very large and recurring contribution to Iarnród Éireann. This year, that will amount to more than €300 million in current and capital expenditure.

As the Deputy knows, I am not involved in the day-to-day operations of public transport. Industrial relations and pay are a matter for the company and its employees. Pay disputes have to be solved by engagement between employers and staff. The State can assist through the normal industrial relations machinery available in these circumstances, and the Labour Court and Workplace Relations Commission are the appropriate fora for these discussions.

As I stated in response to previous questions+ and as the Deputy will be aware, I previously committed to meeting with trade unions in the transport sector once industrial relations disputes were fully resolved. A meeting took place on 10 July and proved useful and informative to me and the trade unions. The purpose of the meeting was to allow trade unions an opportunity to outline any issues of concern about policy as may have been expressed in recent months. I again made it clear at that meeting that it was not appropriate for me to be involved in industrial relations negotiations. They and others expressed their views on this matter very strongly and eloquently.

It is disappointing that the discussions at the WRC did not reach agreement recently. Everyone knows this situation will require these discussions to continue in order for a resolution to be found.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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The reason the discussions at the WRC did not reach agreement was because the management proposal was extremely aggressive. In real terms, it was effectively a wage cut. There was an official nominal increase of 1.5%. However, there were 18 conditions attached, including a reduction in contract hours, accepting outsourcing, forced redeployment and freezing increments. We spoke to workers for whom that would mean an effective pay cut of at least €60 per week. The workers are absolutely correct to take action.

Obviously, the Minister does the usual routine of Ministers for Transport, Tourism and Sport when industrial situations arise, namely, to say this has nothing to do with them. The problem the Minister has is that he has a report on his desk, the rail review from the NTA, which recommends that €125 million be given to Irish Rail to compensate for underfunding from 2010 to 2016, inclusive. It would make a significant difference in terms of the legacy debt of Irish Rail, which stands at €160 million and which is clearly a large part of the context of this discussion. Will the Minister agree to at least do that?

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I will not comment with such authority as Deputy Murphy on the negotiations which took place. I will not make any comment on the merits of the proposal which was made to both parties. That is a matter for both parties to resolve between themselves, as they have done in previous disputes involving the subsidiaries of CIE companies.

I deeply regret that there is a dispute of this sort. My job is to represent the interests of the taxpaying public and passengers and to express the hope that both parties will get together and once again resume talks in order that we can have a secure and efficient company.

The Deputy is correct when he talks about the rail review having acknowledge the problems. The report, which is sitting on my desk, refers to significant problems. The problems are being and will be addressed. I have already expressed to other Deputies the essential nature of publishing the national framework report before making dramatic decisions on funding or on the future of Iarnród Éireann.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Let us put some facts on the table. Passenger numbers and revenue are at an all-time high in Irish Rail. However, due to cuts, it is spending all of the available money on track and engine maintenance. More people are using rail services. There is a very important ideological element which comes from the Government and Irish Rail management and the chief executive officer, CEO, Mr. David Franks. It is an agenda of underfunding, outsourcing and privatisation. It is an agenda which sees it as acceptable that the CEO would spend at least €20,000 on a fishing trip to entertain European rail CEOs, while not being willing to offer his workers a decent deal.

The CEO has come from Keolis UK in Britain, which has newly-privatised railways, and the outsourcing of Irish Rail services was pushed through even though they are more expensive when delivered by a subcontractor than when run by Irish Rail. I warn the Minister that if he continues on this road he is liable to further undermine and attempt to destroy our public transport. We saw what happened in Britain, where the political backlash has resulted in a situation whereby 76% of the public support renationalisation of the railways and redevelopment of public transport as a public service. That is what we should be doing.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy for his contribution. I wish to once again nail the privatisation myth that he seems to peddle as some sort of mantra for his troops. Perhaps he has not heard what I have repeatedly said in this House and in joint committees, namely, that I am not pursuing the privatisation route in Iarnród Éireann, Bus Éireann or Dublin Bus.

That is not the intention. The problems of funding, which the Deputy correctly highlighted, will have to be addressed. There are ones which we share in common. They will be addressed effectively. It is very difficult to address such problems when there is an industrial dispute threatening and, as the Deputy said, despite the fact that passenger numbers are rising, thank God, but the company still finds itself in a critical situation. I will be addressing those problems, not under the threat of any industrial difficulties which we have but in the long term. The problems are and will be addressed.