Dáil debates

Tuesday, 26 September 2017

Topical Issue Debate

Schools Building Projects

6:55 pm

Photo of John CurranJohn Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I apologise on behalf of Deputy Lahart who wished to contribute but, due to a clash of times, cannot make it. Scoil Mochua is a relatively small school located in Clondalkin, with about 74 pupils. The children have multiple disabilities including physical and other severe disabilities. Recently, Deputy Ó Broin and I had an opportunity to visit the school and meet the pupils and their teachers. We saw the physical condition of the school. More importantly, we saw the difficulty posed for the children in carrying out their daily activities. The school's conditions are poor and the accommodations are not appropriately planned. All of these children have physical disabilities, with walkers, wheelchairs and so forth. The physical space to manoeuvre is simply not sufficient. This causes severe hardship on an ongoing and daily basis. The school is also in a very poor condition in respect of toilet and sanitary facilities and so forth. It is not fit for purpose.

I emphasise that this is not a constituency matter. While the school is located in Clondalkin, the pupils come from Clondalkin, Lucan, Ballyfermot, Tallaght, Naas and other areas. It is a very particular issue. Having looked at the facilities in the school, we believe they are grossly inadequate for the needs of the children. They are children with significant challenges and although the physical condition of the school should not be adding to their daily challenge, unfortunately it is.

I am delighted that colleagues from other parties are joining to appeal to the Minister that this school simply cannot wait. The teachers have indicated to us that the Department has informed them that, in the future, there will be a new school building. We are asking the Minister to consider advancing the date for this specific school. There is a very significant, immediate adverse impact on the children. We believe the refurbishments should be advanced more quickly.

Photo of Gino KennyGino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As Deputy Curran said, this issue has cross-party support. Scoil Mochua in Clondalkin is probably unique. As Deputy Curran said, there are 74 students, most of whom are wheelchair users. They come from 19 different localities including Clondalkin, Ballyfermot and Lucan, as well as counties Kildare, Meath and Wicklow. It is unique in offering preschool, primary and post-primary facilities. As Deputy Curran described, the school is very dilapidated and is not fit for purpose in its present form.

Many good schools have been built in Dublin Mid-West. The management and students of Scoil Mochua are looking for equality on that basis. They are in the schools building programme for 2019 to 2021. The management and students are saying this work cannot wait but needs to be fast-tracked and undertaken as soon as possible. I could read out a list of issues that the school has. Some of them are very basic, for example corridors in which two wheelchairs cannot pass each other. The school building has outlived its purpose and it is time a new school is built.

Photo of Eoin Ó BroinEoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As the Minister knows, Scoil Mochua is a Central Remedial Clinic, CRC, school in Clondalkin. It is unique in that not only is it a school but also has on-site therapeutic support and interventions provided by the CRC. There are 74 pupils from a wide range of localities, electoral constituencies and counties. The pupils are children with special needs including those with multiple disabilities. I visited the school three times over the last months. The quality of the effort by the teachers, board and parents is just remarkable. Deputy Curran and I met three of the pupils, who gave a presentation. These are remarkable children who are overcoming all sorts of obstacles placed in their way in their everyday lives. In addition to that, they are in a school in which the conditions are frankly Dickensian. Not only is there not enough room for the facilities; there are not adequate toilet facilities, cooking or eating facilities or facilities for children to exercise.

Our request is very simple. It is that this project be lifted out of the current capital programme up to 2021 and brought forward. The school has the land and the support from the local authority. It has support from the local community and cross-party support. I urge the Minister to visit the school to see for himself at first hand the conditions.

There is a further frustration. A number of us in this House have been raising the matter with the Minister through parliamentary questions over the last months, seeking information. I was told in replies in May, June and September that additional information had been requested from the school by the Department and had yet to arrive. In case that is going to be part of the Minister's answer today, it is not the case. The information that I was told was required over the summer had been provided in May. The information that I was told in September was required by the Department had been provided in August. The Department has all the information. The Minister has all the information. Because of the special needs of these children and the poor state of the school, we are urging the Minister to lift it out of the capital programme and bring it forward to let these children get the quality of education they so rightly deserve.

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My colleagues have outlined the situation for the 74 children. The school covers four constituencies, including my own with 12 children coming from the Tallaght area. As other speakers have said, it is not about lobbying for a constituency school; the Minister gets those letters every day of the week and I understand the pressure he is under. This school is unique in the difficulties that are facing the children. The children themselves have multiple disabilities in many cases, including physical and other impairments. In their short lives, they have faced significant challenges and will probably face even more as they move into the future. The difficulties for electrical equipment and even for two wheelchair users to pass each other in the corridors have been described. In order to get from one end of the school to the other, some children have to go outside the school altogether, out onto the path. The school is located down in a back alley or laneway, which makes it difficult to drop off the children at school. It is made up of prefabs. There are a lot of problems.

There is plenty of land and there is agreement with South Dublin County Council. We are not just looking to serve our own constituencies here. We are asking the Minister to fast-track the work because of the profound challenges facing these children. It ticks all the boxes. I know there is a difficulty for the Minister in that if he does this for one school, the pressure is going to be on for another. I ask him to seriously consider this case, however. We have an opportunity to do something positive for these children and their families. I ask him to reflect on this in his answer.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputies for raising this issue.

The Department is committed to a rebuild on the existing site. That has been accepted. As the Deputies have indicated, it is due for commencement between 2019 and 2021. It is at an early stage of planning within the Department. As Deputy Ó Broin has said, there are issues from the Department's point of view. It needs additional information. The rebuild is designed to cater not just for the existing school numbers, but also for projected additional needs. I understand that the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, and the school are involved in providing the additional information needed to identify the scale of those needs. The information in question will be an important input into the Department's planning. In addition, I understand from the Department that mapping and service identification in respect of an adjoining site, which has been put forward prospectively as part of the site on which the development will occur, is not available to it in the detail it needs. I do not know whether it is an issue for the school or the council to indicate what underground services are there. Additional information is being sought in respect of water and other issues.

I would be sympathetic to the proposal that this should be fast-tracked, if possible. The sheer growth in school numbers has put severe pressure on my Department. We are providing 15,000 additional school places every year, driven simply by demographic need. At the same time, we are trying to provide approximately 5,000 replacement places. This school would largely fall into the latter category. As the Deputies will understand, the Department has scheduled its work in accordance with that plan. It works through projects on a sequential basis. In light of the unanimity of the Deputies' views, I will explore whether there is scope for this project to be moved forward more quickly than anticipated.

The Department seems to need additional information from the school. I am not sure whether that information is entirely available to the principal or is something we need to source, along with the school, from other agents. It appears that South Dublin County Council and the NCSE will have roles to play in accurately identifying the scale of the project and determining the suitability of the site. They will need to ascertain whether any issues pertaining to the site could create delays in planning, design and so on. That is where it stands. I will seek additional information on this at a personal level to see whether we can do anything to comply with what the Deputies have said.

I have been seeking to prioritise children with special educational needs. In the past two years, I have been able to provide for 1,500 additional resource teachers and 2,000 additional special needs assistants. When special classes are needed, they are treated as emergency works. We are trying to make sure children with special needs are not disadvantaged in any way. I will explore this further in view of what the Deputies have said to see what is possible. If they can shed any light on the issues that are holding this up, according to what I have been told, I would appreciate it.

7:05 pm

Photo of John CurranJohn Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I acknowledge the Minister's positive response. We will be glad to work collectively with him to bring this to a conclusion as quickly as possible, for example, by working to supply the additional information that is needed to ensure this project goes ahead. It can advance with the direct help of the Minister. I commend the students and teachers in the school, who are doing exceptionally well during these difficult and challenging times. In case anyone thinks we are jumping on the bandwagon at the last moment, I remind the Minister of the findings of a whole-school evaluation that was conducted in the school in March 2010:

The school wing contains three units, each comprising a shared area with two classroom bases located off it. This type of school design was prevalent at the time the building was constructed but is not the optimum design for pupils with physical disability. The classroom bases are small and are restrictive when used for tuition with the whole class group. Many of the pupils attending the school have physical needs requiring frequent changes to supportive seating or standing equipment. This necessitates the movement of both pupils and equipment regularly during the day. As the classroom bases are small, other pupils often have to be moved to facilitate the exit or entrance of their peers.

In acknowledgment of that evaluation, the board of management of the school replied:

We welcome inspectors’ comments about the significant inadequacy of our existing buildings. The Board of Management will increase its efforts to achieve a building programme through the DES which will fully address the needs of our physically/multiply disabled students.

The evaluation to which I refer was conducted in March 2010. This shows that the problem has been around for a long time. I am glad to hear the Minister's response. My colleagues and I will work collectively to try to advance this project.

Photo of Gino KennyGino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister's response is quite positive. We sometimes get negative news when we come in here. I hope the issues raised in the Minister's statement can be overcome. In particular, the issue relating to the land in the local area can be overcome quite quickly by South Dublin County Council.

I would like to mention some other parallels. A really good primary school is being built by Stewarts in the Rosse Court area of Lucan. It will be a state-of-the-art facility for children with special needs, etc. I hope the parents, the management and the service users can get what they want and the issues can be fast-tracked so that this school gets up and running as soon as possible.

Photo of Eoin Ó BroinEoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the very positive response from the Minister. I want to clarify the nature of the information that is being asked for. An email that was sent by the principal of the school in response to my last parliamentary question on this matter makes it clear that as far as the school understands, the information sought by the Department - a letter from South Dublin County Council with respect to the use of a particular piece of land - was submitted in March 2016 and again in June 2017.

Future enrolment numbers have also been mentioned. As the Minister will be aware, because this is not a mainstream school, the sources of enrolment are more complex. According to the information that has been provided to the Department, it will be built as a 12-teacher school, in line with the current shape and size of the school.

There have been conversations between the Department and the relevant personnel in the CRC regarding the co-location of the CRC building. The CRC authorities have confirmed that they are more than happy to work with the Department and to allow it to be the lead design team in producing this development.

I suggest that the quickest way to get this resolved is to do two things. First, officials from the Department need to have an on-site meeting with representatives of South Dublin County Council and CRC as a matter of urgency to resolve any outstanding issues. Second, I recommend that a joint design team, comprising officials from the Department and the CRC, should be put in place to work through the rest of the issues and avoid emails getting lost in transmission between different bodies. This is happening in housing and there is no reason it cannot happen in the Department of Education and Skills. If the Minister were to undertake to do those two things - arrange an on-site meeting and establish a design team involving the Department and the CRC - this could be expedited very quickly, something which would meet with universal approval.

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is nothing more frustrating than getting an answer that refers to technical issues or all sorts of problems. I take what the Minister is saying at face value. I think prioritising schools like this is the right direction for us to take as a society. As I said in my opening statement, these children face challenges because they are impaired by their disabilities, so society should not be impairing them as well. They should not have difficulty getting into their schools, which should be safe havens they can enjoy with their colleagues. If the Minister can fast-track and champion this cause, it will be a positive day's work. There is huge pressure on the families of these beautiful children to deliver the supports they need. They are looking for the best for them. If we have the ability to deliver such services at this school, in particular, we should try to do so. If the Minister can champion this as a priority, we would appreciate it.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not sure that an on-site meeting is necessary at this stage to resolve these issues. The Department is looking for information on the existence and location of a water main, media underground services and ESB underground cables.

This is factual information about mapping. I was not aware that this involved co-location with the Central Remedial Clinic, CRC, so I will have to explore whether the suggestion the Deputies are making of undertaking a joint design project with the CRC is something to which the Department would be positively disposed. I presume the design issues for the CRC will be different from what would be a standard design of the Department but I will explore the issues the Deputies are raising to see if we can make progress.