Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the selection of this subject by the Office of the Ceann Comhairle. I am very glad the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan, is here to deal with this Topical Issue. I appreciate his engagement with me and other Members in regard to school transport. The issue pertains in particular to the start of the school year last year. The Minister of State facilitated meetings with constituents of mine, which I appreciate. Deputy Thomas Byrne mentioned earlier that there is a huge volume of work in July and August. Those of us who represent very rural constituencies know that much of our case work during August covers school transport issues.

As the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan, and Deputy Byrne, the Acting Chairman, Deputy Durkan, and all of us in the House are well aware, school transport is a huge resource for rural Ireland. At times we do not factor it in enough as a necessary ingredient to ensure we retain population in rural Ireland. Recently, in reply to a parliamentary question, the Minister of State mentioned to me that approximately 116,000 children avail of school transport on an annual basis. It shows the huge importance and value of the school transport system. By and large it works well, but there are always difficulties, and we all know that wherever we have a boundary or a border there will be a difficulty. That is the problem.

I have a particular concern about the changes introduced some years ago. Members of a family may have traditionally attended a post-primary centre but after changes were introduced younger siblings were not entitled to transport to the same centre their older siblings attended. We cannot have a situation where all siblings may attend one primary school but two older siblings then attend two different post-primary centres. The method of calculation is that people have to go online to apply for a ticket and Google Maps provides information on the distance. Some of the suggested routes to calculate the distance between the home and the post-primary centre take people along roads that are not passable for a motor car never mind a minibus or a large school bus.

I would appreciate if some greater flexibility could be given to Bus Éireann in making decisions literally on the ground. I know of one case in my county where on a particular loop road one family is deemed eligible for transport to a school, but it is further away from the school than another family, and whatever way the calculation was made it is the reverse of what it should be. We have to allow the Bus Éireann personnel, who do a good job often in difficult circumstances, to be practical and measure the distance from the home on the basis of the passable route and the route people use.

All of us who represent rural constituencies know that traditionally some parts of a parish may have a different village or town as its town or village to the other half of the parish. There are boundaries and natural catchment areas. The least that could be done in this case is where older siblings have attended a specific post-primary centre that younger siblings should not be denied the same level of school transport as the older siblings to that centre.

I know granting concessionary tickets is a very welcome development but there is a cost to it for many families. All of us know families with primary and post-primary school children. They have huge costs. We should ensure younger siblings are entitled to the same level of service as their older siblings who went to the school deemed to be their local post-primary centre.

It is not easy to draw up a national scheme that will meet all requirements because of geography, topography, roads and natural catchment areas that evolved and are not coterminous with the parish boundary of the school catchment area. Bus Éireann does a good job on the ground. Give it the flexibility to make decisions and submissions to the Department to deal with those anomalies that arise.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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I thank Deputy Smith and I congratulate him on his extensive knowledge of school transport. I have met him on a number of occasions. I could read out a long prepared script and answer based on the question he asked. What he has said is correct. It is an extensive operation managed by Bus Éireann on behalf of the Department. It covers more than 100 million km annually and approximately 116,000 children, including almost 12,000 children with special needs, are transported in approximately 4,500 vehicles on a daily basis to primary and post-primary schools. It is complicated and complex.

I tend to say things straight, and I agree with what the Deputy has said. There should be a little more flexibility. Many Deputies are aware of the changes to the school transport scheme announced by the then Government in budget 2011. They derived from the recommendations contained in what was known as a comprehensive value for money review of the scheme. This was an independent value for money review of the scheme, as far as I am aware. The changes announced included the cessation of the catchment boundary area system to determine the eligibility at post-primary level and to increase from seven to ten the number of eligible children required to establish or retain our school transport service.

I have some difficulty with this and I am speaking with Bus Éireann and the Department about it currently. We have buses that may have eight or nine pupils but not the ten required. The Deputy may not be aware that in the past two weeks I had been requested to take 90 buses off their routes and I refused to do so. These were buses that had fewer than ten pupils. I indicated that at the very least if the schools could show that next year or the year after they may be able to bring the number of pupils on the route to ten, that the buses would be kept in the system, and this will happen.

In general, children are eligible for post-primary school transport if they reside not less than 4.8 km and are attending their nearest school. It is important to note that children who were eligible for school transport prior to the introduction of the changes retain this eligibility for the duration of their education at the school. This is provided there is no change in their circumstances. However, all new pupils, including siblings of existing pupils, are assessed for school transport eligibility under the revised criteria.

To answer the question the Deputy has asked, I will have a look at it. Next week, I plan to meet departmental officials on school transport again, and I will keep the Deputy up to speed on whether we can move forward on the suggestion he has made. Next week, I will also meet a number of Deputies from various parties, and if the Deputy would like to be part of the meeting he would be very welcome for a number of minutes. I ask him to email me the proposal and suggestion he has made before I meet the departmental officials next week, and we will see whether we can move forward on the very issue he has spoken about, with which I have some difficulty, I may as well be frank with the Deputy.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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7 o’clock

I welcome the Minister of State’s forthright response and his obvious determination to bring about a resolution to these difficulties. It will not cost millions of euro. The moneys involved are small amounts, yet it is so important to families. We know families are stressed out at the beginning of the school year with various back-to-school costs. Additional difficulties with school transport and concerns about getting children to school just add awful further stress to families, in particular if both parents are working or there is only one parent in the home. Any measures to deal with the difficulties on the ground are welcome.

We do not factor in enough the importance of the school transport service in regenerating rural areas and keeping rural Ireland alive. Every rural Member will have had a call from a couple intending to set up a family home in a rural area inquiring about the level of school transport in a particular rural area. It determines whether people will live in particular areas. It is a practical matter with which parents have to deal.

I welcome the Minister of State's commitment to bring a practical approach to this issue. I have come across some instances of children who had school transport to a primary school but none when they went on to post-primary school, even though they were both in the same catchment areas. Either we have feeder primary schools into second level or not.

I would be glad to participate in the meeting proposed by the Minister of State. It would be welcome if he was able to give out a clear message that common sense will prevail on the ground. We cannot be measuring routes over mountains and bog roads as the nearest distance between a home and post-primary school.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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There has been no change in the method used to calculate the distance that determines a child's eligibility for school transport. That is determined by Bus Éireann by measuring the shortest traversable route from the child’s home to the relevant school. I understand there are difficulties with mountain passes and so forth. There is no question, however, that it will have to be examined.

The budget allocated for school transport is €182 million per year. I am restricted in that I cannot increase that budget. If I were given an extra €10 million or €20 million, there would be no problem with eligible children or concessionary children using school transport. However, it is difficult.

I have some difficulty with the method using the shortest traversable route. We are speaking to Bus Éireann to deal with that issue. However, I am bound by the legislation introduced in the Dáil in 2011 and 2012. I must work within that to the best of my ability. I try to manage outside it and to bring common sense to bear. In 2017 and 2018 we may need to look at how the scheme operates and come back from what was agreed in 2011 and 2012. Circumstances, geography, bus routes and ability have changed. We should have a look at bus capacity to see whether it should be ten, seven or eight children.

I am curtailed by the amount of finance my Department has. We are right up to the edge with 116,000 children, 12,000 special needs children, 4,500 vehicles and the current budget.