Dáil debates
Tuesday, 27 June 2017
Ceisteanna - Questions
Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements
4:10 pm
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he has had contact with the President of the United States of America. [27221/17]
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts and engagements with the US Administration of President Trump. [27640/17]
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach if he has been in contact with President Trump since he was appointed Taoiseach. [28861/17]
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach if he has had engagement with the President of the United States, Mr. Donald Trump, since he took office. [29834/17]
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, together.
I have not had any direct contact or engagement with President Trump or the US Administration since my election as Taoiseach, although I have spoken to the chargé d'affaires by phone. However, I expect to receive a short phone call from President Trump later this afternoon. I expect this to be a brief congratulatory call, similar to several calls I have received in recent days.
As I said in the House last week, I want our relations with the United States to continue to develop based on the long-standing friendship that exists between our countries. As Taoiseach, I am committed to working productively with the US Administration in the cause of international peace and security, to promote Ireland's interests in the United States and to further strengthen the economic, trade and investment links between Ireland and the US to the mutual benefit of both countries. At the same time, I will also ensure that I promote the values of this country and the European values for which this Government stands. I will also continue the efforts of my predecessor to prioritise immigration reform in my engagements with the US Administration with a view to regularising the situation of the up to 50,000 undocumented Irish in the United States.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Last week, the Taoiseach indicated he would not withdraw his invitation to President Trump because it would cause a diplomatic incident, which is not something President Trump worries about in his daily actions. However, in the face of evil, diplomatic incidents are sometimes necessary. Last Saturday, the Taoiseach took part in the pride parade, as did I. The focus of the pride events in the US this year was completely on Donald Trump. I note the Taoiseach went further than not withdrawing the invitation to President Trump and spoke of his enthusiasm for visiting the White House on St. Patrick's Day, a tradition he is aware was debated in the House in regard to his predecessor. The proposed visit should be debated before the Taoiseach undertakes it and for him to say he would do that was planning too far ahead. This is not business as usual. The Trump regime is homophobic, sexist and racist. It is not business as usual and the Taoiseach should not do all the traditional things that have always been done. People who are in fear of Trump's policies would appreciate a gesture of solidarity from any head of state. LGBTQ people in America are currently in fear of the loss of support from the state for their marriages and employment rights and that schools will not recognise their children or allow their children to change their names. Women are in fear that President Trump will row back laws that were won over many years. The Taoiseach should not commit to visiting the White House. What will he raise with President Trump in his phone call later today?
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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To use the term "evil" is to employ very strong language. The Deputy would have more credibility if she used it in regard to other forms of evil, such as the Bolsheviks, who put people into gulags, set up a secret police-----
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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It is a bit pathetic for the Taoiseach to start this rather than answer the question he was asked.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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It is a fair response and------
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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If he thinks that approach will get him any kudos, he is wrong. This is a serious issue and------
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Coppinger asked the Taoiseach a question------
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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And he is not answering it.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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She should let the Taoiseach------
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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The Ceann Comhairle should pull him up for refusing to answer.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy was familiar with Standing Orders, she would know that I have no power to take the Taoiseach up on anything in terms of his response. The Deputy might let him respond before she criticises him.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I have not yet had the phone call with President Trump but I am fairly sure that at some point in my interactions with him, assuming we are both still in office next March, we will be discussing LGBT rights. I will not shirk from raising issues such as climate change, LGBT rights and so on with President Trump.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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He should raise the issue of the Bolsheviks.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I guarantee that I do not expect-----
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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The Bolsheviks were great champions of LGBT rights.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I do not expect that I would ever get any kudos for exposing the far left. I am sure I would only get opprobrium. It is not very long ago that Deputy Coppinger and her Party were celebrating the Bolshevik revolution as one of the great events in history but what it led to, as we know-----
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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We did.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I know the Deputy believes it was one of the great events in history. However, what it led to was the ending of a democracy because there was a democracy in place until the Bolsheviks----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Under the Tsar?
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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There were democratic elections. Alexander Kerensky was democratically elected-----
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Does the Taoiseach need a history lesson?
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is the second book the Taoiseach has recently read.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The Soviet Union ended democracy, established gulags, put people in concentration camps, set up a secret police, ended free speech and stopped all elections. However, the Deputy's view is that that was the greatest event in history.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Stalin was actually responsible for those events.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on Deputy Howlin to try to follow that.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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If this is the way the Taoiseach is going to go, it is unbelievable. So-called new politics. Liberal and young----
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Coppinger, please allow other Members to speak.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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It is pathetic.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Most people are deeply concerned about the policies being pursued by the US President. Although she is not of my political family but rather that of the Taoiseach, I am very taken by the attitude of the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, who will only deal on the basis of European principles. In the short phone call that the Taoiseach is to receive this afternoon, will he specifically mention the need for proactive action across the globe on climate change and the commitment that the Taoiseach has set out for the Government in that regard? In regard to immigration, will he point out that it is not acceptable or proper for Irish citizens with who have lived law-abidingly long term in the United States to be taken away from their place of work in handcuffs without even the decency of being able to contact their family members and make arrangements before they leave? In regard to the taxation system, has the Taoiseach had any discussions with the US authorities in regard to President Trump's proposals for a border adjustment tax, which would have very profound for American businesses sited in this State?
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I intend to raise that the European Council met Thursday and Friday last and I and the other 27 European leaders present reaffirmed our commitment to the Paris climate change agreement. This will be the first time for me to speak to anybody representing the US Administration since my election as Taoiseach and I do not know how many issues I will have a chance to raise. To date, tax policy has not been discussed.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The US Supreme Court has today lifted the block on the racist travel ban imposed by Donald Trump, which means that his plan to impose a ban on people travelling from Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen to the United States will now be enforced.
Donald Trump is pursuing pure, unadulterated racism. There is no other word for it. Does the Taoiseach think that it is acceptable that we would invite to Ireland someone who would impose a purely racist ban against six nations, encompassing tens of millions of people, or is he going to speak to Donald Trump about that, say it is not acceptable, and add that we are not going to allow US immigration officers at Shannon or Dublin to implement that policy on Irish territory? It is racism. Do we stand against racism or do we not? Are we going to speak up against it and take the first opportunity to do so, which the Taoiseach has this afternoon, or not? Is the Taoiseach going to express concern about Donald Trump boasting of a €110 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia, a vicious, brutal, undemocratic dictatorship which kills and executes its political opponents and which denies the most basic civil rights to women, ethnic minorities and workers? Is the Taoiseach going to express any concern about the dangerous escalation of tensions by that country against Qatar and Iran, all being stirred up by Donald Trump? Is the Taoiseach concerned about these things? Will he say anything to Donald Trump today, and is he seriously suggesting inviting someone pursuing those kinds of dangerous and racist policies to this country and fete him here?
4:20 pm
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The phone call is at Mr. Trump's request to congratulate me on my election as Taoiseach. I am going to receive the phone call. Relations between Ireland and America are very important. They are going to go on long after Presidents, taoisigh and Governments change in both countries. They are relations that go back centuries. There are very important economic, cultural and family ties that exist between Ireland and America, and the relationship that we have with the United States is one that is going to have to withstand any particular Taoiseach or President.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What about Libyan, Somalian and Yemeni families?
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I am not sure if I will have an opportunity to speak about it but I certainly do not agree with the travel ban imposed by the US Administration and I have no difficulty saying that if I have an opportunity to do so. Equally, even when there are governments with whom we do not agree, I generally believe that engagement is better than refusing to engage, and I would apply the same principles to counties like Cuba and Venezuela, where civil and political rights are suppressed and have been for decades, and much more than they are in the United States. If I am willing to have engagement with countries like that, surely a different standard should not be applied to the United States.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The concern specifically around the United States is not just the domestic policies pursued by this Administration but the global reach of the United States, which is unrivalled by the Cubans and the Venezuelans. The Taoiseach would accept that.
It is very difficult to know where to start with the Trump Administration. On the one hand, people accept the reality that this man was democratically returned to office. That is a fact. However, there is a huge concern around where this country and its Administration positions itself in its interactions with that Administration, and there is no appetite whatsoever simply to go along with what amounts to a fairly warped view of the world with strong elements of evil laced through.
Will the Taoiseach comment specifically on the issue of what we in this country call the undocumented, who are in fact the Irish illegals Stateside? The recent arrest of a Donegal man who has been living in the United States for 20 years has caused huge anxiety for all the Irish community. According to the immigration and customs enforcement branch of the Department of Homeland Security, there was a 37% increase in arrests on immigration charges in the first three months of the Trump Presidency. Will the Taoiseach tell the Dáil if the Government has recorded any increase in arrests of undocumented Irish citizens in the United States? Is he aware of any other citizens currently being held by the immigration service for deportation, and can he report on the extent of his lobbying of the Administration in a bid to find a resolution to this situation?
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I absolutely accept Deputy McDonald's point that the United States does have a global reach and that makes it different from most other states, but I do not accept the hypocrisy that I see so often in this House of people turning a blind eye to oppression, execution, detention without trial, banning elections, free association and free speech-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach does it all the time. He does it all the time.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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-----just because those regimes style themselves as left-wing. It is the hypocrisy I find hard to accept.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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The Taoiseach should be used to it because he engages in it continually.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I am glad the Deputies do not deny that they do it, because they evidently do in the fact that-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We condemn Cuba's human rights violations across the board.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputies know the point I am making.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Do not let the truth get in the way of a good soundbite.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Never have any shame in shouting people down when one cannot bear to listen to other people and listen to the truth.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What is the truth?
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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This is the kind of thing that regimes like Cuba and Venezuela do. They try to suppress-----
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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It is extremely cynical of the Taoiseach to answer in the way he is.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputies let the Taoiseach answer?
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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On a point of order, the Taoiseach has been unbelievably cynical in his answers to serious questions that were tabled about Donald Trump. He is-----
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach is expressing a point of view, which he is quite entitled to do. The Deputies are entitled to express their point of view-----
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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That is why we are answering him.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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-----and they have been unfettered and uninterrupted in expressing their views. The Deputies should resume their seats and let the Taoiseach respond.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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On a point of order-----
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, we have had enough points of order.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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On a point of order-----
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no point of order during questions to the Taoiseach.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The question is for the Ceann Comhairle.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies ask questions to the Taoiseach during Taoiseach's Questions, not to me.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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A point of order is made to the Ceann Comhairle.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no point of order to be made.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Is it not legitimate for us to raise a protest about the Taoiseach ascribing views to us that we have never enunciated?
Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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It is what the Deputy does every day.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We have never enunciated those views.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Both the Deputy and the Taoiseach have made political points.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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He is ascribing views to us that we do not hold.
Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy does it every day to every other party in this House.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should resume his seat.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Once again, the truth hurts.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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That is not the truth
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not the truth.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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That is on display today. This is the classic tactic of shouting someone down when one does not agree with someone. I agree with the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Regina Doherty. It is the standard tactic of the left to ascribe beliefs and opinions to others that they do not hold-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach has just done exactly that.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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-----and then attack them for holding those opinions they do not hold. It is a regular tactic of the left to tell someone what they think and what they believe and then attack them for those.
Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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If the Deputy cannot take it, he should not dish it out.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What views do I ascribe to the Taoiseach?
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This behaviour is unacceptable.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What views do I ascribe to the Taoiseach?
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have absolutely no interest in the Taoiseach's analysis of the Bolsheviks, the Russian Revolution, the Wizard of Oz, his film choices or anything else. I asked a question about the undocumented Irish and I got precisely no answer.
Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach did not get a chance to answer.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I was mid-answer.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach was barking on about irrelevant topics.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I was trying to answer, but as is so often the case within 15 seconds I was interrupted and shouted down. I do not think I shouted down anyone or interrupted. Those are the tactics that we have become too tolerant of in this House.
To answer Deputy McDonald's question about the undocumented Irish, that issue remains at the top of our priorities in terms of our engagement with the United States authorities. The embassy is very active on this issue, as is the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and I know the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Cannon, will take an interest in it as well, because we want to have some system put in place to regularise Irish migrants who are no longer documented in the United States, along with people from other countries as well.
Our priority of course is Irish citizens who find themselves in that position.
4:30 pm
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Many Deputies would be wise to avoid exaggerating the extent to which anything said by Ireland or its head of Government can change the trajectory of the Trump Administration.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Or anybody else on the planet for that matter.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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President Trump and his Administration have been distancing themselves from international organisations and principles which have underpinned cooperation between democratic states since the end of the Second World War. That is the fundamental shift that is happening under the Trump presidency which should concern us. It is not about how we oppose Trump but how we continue to express confidence in those international organisations, rule based institutions and agreements.
The afternoon's courtesy call will break no new ground. I take the point that it is a courtesy call but I do think the Taoiseach should perhaps stress that Ireland continues to believe in free trade and in access to markets, not protectionism, which is a dangerous trend that is emerging, and also in international cooperation on issues such as human rights and climate change.
The Taoiseach might also be mindful of the fact that President Trump's knowledge of Ireland is probably still on the level it was when he attended a Sinn Féin fundraising dinner and was welcomed warmly by Deputy Adams on that occasion. It might be useful to point out that his party's approach to taxation and trade is not one that is shared by the majority of the people.
The planned visit to the United Kingdom has been cancelled, the Taoiseach probably realises that, because there is a fear of public protest which would be too hot or large to handle. I presume the same would apply here.
Does the Taoiseach have any update on a new ambassador to Ireland? The recent passing of the great Dan Rooney, a former ambassador, reminded us of the importance of that post to Ireland and to relationships between the United States and Ireland. Has there been any indication of an imminent appointment?
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I have no update on the position of ambassador. A name has been mentioned and the Deputy has seen that name in the press but that person has yet to be formally nominated or to go to confirmation. In the meantime the chargé d'affaires is acting-----
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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That name has been withdrawn.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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If the name has been withdrawn the chargé d'affaires is working actively in lieu of the ambassador.
It is very hard to talk about a phone call that has not happened yet.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It was a great debate. Can the Taoiseach imagine what will happen after the phone call?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Trump loves the Russians so they will have that in common.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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We had a great debate yesterday at my meeting with Teresa May which I think ran for just under an hour but we had two hours of questions on it.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The questions will become not "Will the Taoiseach?" but "Did the Taoiseach?" the next time we talk about this.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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That is fair enough. I am happy to answer those questions but it is my intention initially to speak about the long-standing links that exist between the two countries and mention as many other issues as I possibly can but free trade is certainly one that I would like to mention and to restate Ireland's and the European Union's commitment to free trade and opposition to protectionism which was again a feature of the European Council summit last Thursday and Friday, where the council decided against proposals that would screen purchases of State-owned enterprises of companies in Europe. As much as it is possible to work in many things into a conversation the ongoing commitment to free trade will be one of those.