Dáil debates

Thursday, 1 June 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Public Sector Pensions Data

4:05 pm

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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1. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if his Department has compiled data from other European countries on the different ways public sector and civil servant pensions are administered, the amount they pay on average per employee and the rules they have for public pensions and in total; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26201/17]

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I seek some information from the Minister on the background to pensions and the data his Department is using. I tabled this question in anticipation that we might have some sort of resolution to the current pay talks, so I would appreciate it if the Minister could give the House an update on the status of the talks and when he envisages they will be competed. I understand they will not be completed before tomorrow. I would be more interested in finding out that information in the Minister's first response than the answer to the question.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I will answer the tabled question first, and I will then give him the update he seeks.

My Department is responsible for Government policy on civil and public service pensions.  In that context, the Department monitors relevant pension developments outside the Irish public service, including in the areas of private sector pensions, social insurance based pensions and international public sector pensions.

With regard to international public sector pensions, proactive data compilation as to the position in individual other European countries, including in respect of the scheme specifics referred to in the Deputy's question, is undertaken by my Department according as need dictates and within available resources.

We are a member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, and my Department is affiliated to the European Association of Public Sector Pension Institutions. These and other similar links allow my Department to leverage extensive repositories of pension information and comparative international pension studies which are available.

In that context, there are two particular reports that have been of great help. The OECD Pensions Outlook 2016 included a chapter examining the pension system for civil servants in OECD countries, including Ireland. The 2014 published OECD report entitled Reviews of Pensions Systems: Ireland provided a detailed international perspective of retirement income provision.

Comparisons like these are helpful. However, they have to be approached with a degree of caution given the significant diversity often present from country to country in regard to key pension-related variables. They include contribution rates, benefit levels, pension qualifying ages, dependant benefits, tax treatment of pensions, scheme financing and other matters.

With regard to where we are in the current negotiations, I expected them to be difficult, and they are difficult. The Government has raised matters regarding productivity and pensions. I do not believe those negotiations will be complete this week.

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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On the pension issue, can the Minister clarify if any work was done specifically in advance of this round of talks? Has the Government made proposals in this round of talks around pensions and pension contributions? With regard to the talks, does the Minister have a new timescale in mind? Can he confirm the reports that even though we are ten days into the process, a pay offer has yet to be tabled by the Government?

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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On the Deputy's first question as to whether this work was done in advance of the Public Service Pay Commission and this process beginning, it was done in advance of it, but it would be fair to say that it was not commissioned for it. This was work that we had under way and it has informed what we are doing.

Regarding the Deputy's second question about what we have tabled, we have discussed proposals on pensions. There has been some comment about that publicly and in the media. I have to respect the fact that these negotiations are happening inside the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and they form an integral part of people's compensation overall. We will table other proposals as the process moves forward.

In terms of when I believe the process will end, it is a difficult enough process without me setting deadlines to which the Deputy will then hold me accountable. I am more focused on seeing if we can get an outcome that I can recommend to Government and in the context of next year's budget rather than a particular deadline which I may or may not be able to hit.

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to pensions, changes were made to pensions and all the people involved suffered deductions as part of the financial emergency measures in the public interest legislation. I am aware the Minister has an ongoing engagement with the Alliance of Retired Public Servants, but what status will its members have in terms of the pay talks? This affects them. I know they have a relationship with ICTU's public services committee, but they believe that decisions are being taken affecting their income without their input.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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In terms of how we will deal with that body and people who are already pensioners, which is what the Deputy is referring to, I have met that body and had a discussion with it regarding issues on behalf of its members. They will not be part of the process currently under way in the WRC because they do not have a representative status. They do not have the same parity as either a union or a representative body, but in the aftermath of an agreement - if we can reach one - I will meet them. My Department has already met them to engage with them on issues that are under way. The Deputy has written to me on this topic outlining his views on the status of the public service pension reduction, PSPR, and its viability in the future, and he has raised issues on behalf of those pensioners. I am well aware of them and in the aftermath of an agreement being reached - if one can be reached - I would then propose to engage with that sector.