Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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12. To ask the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government if he will request the pyrite board to initiate a review of the pyrite remediation scheme with particular reference to an assessment of the way in which the certification process can be made more efficient in order that properties which have pyrite but low levels of damage can be promptly issued with a green certificate. [24987/17]

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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I again ask the Minister where we are in terms of an urgent review of the pyrite remediation scheme. As he well knows, currently it is not fit for purpose. It is particularly not fit for purpose for those stuck in the middle, that is, whose properties are damaged but not damaged enough to be remediated. They cannot get a green certificate showing that they are pyrite-free because of the mechanism involved. Therefore, they cannot sell, renovate or move on with their lives. This is long overdue and needs to be addressed.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Clare Daly, along with many others, has been doing pioneering work on the area of pyrite. We are trying to address the issue as much as we possibly can. New presentations of those with pyrite - not of homelessness - is approximately ten a week. There is a fair lot still coming on stream. Therefore, I wish to stress that the scheme will not close.

The pyrite resolution board, with the support of the Housing Agency, is responsible for the implementation of the pyrite remediation scheme.  The scheme is one of last resort and is limited in its application and scope.  

The scheme is applicable to dwellings which are subject to significant damage attributable to pyritic heave established in accordance with - Deputy Daly probably knows the reference off by heart at this stage - I.S. 398-1:2013 - Reactive pyrite in sub-floor hardcore material – Part 1: Testing and categorisation protocol. In this regard, it is a condition of eligibility under the scheme that an application to the board must be accompanied by a building condition assessment with a damage condition rating of 2. This ensures that, having regard to available resources, the focus of the scheme is on dwellings which are most severely damaged by pyritic heave. We have no proposals to amend the eligibility criteria for the scheme.

At the end of the remediation works, each dwelling is provided with a certificate of remediation for reactive pyrite in sub-floor hardcore material, which is completed jointly by the relevant builder and design professional in accordance with Annex B to I.S. 398-2:2013. The certificate confirms that the dwelling has been remediated to the requirements set out in the national standard.

A green certificate is issued in respect of dwellings that have been assessed, at the request of the homeowner, in accordance with the standard and considered to be free from pyrite. This issuing of such certificates is a matter entirely for the homeowners and the professional they engage. It is not part of the pyrite remediation scheme. Where a house has been remediated under the scheme, a certificate of remediation is provided and the issue of a green certificate does not arise.

I know the issue relates to the new standard to be brought forward. I had hoped we would have had it months ago. When the standard will be agreed is outside the control of my Department. Most people believe a change in it might help people to progress into category 2 quicker in order that they can be dealt with or that they would qualify for a green certificate. I hope the new standard will bring some changes and some certainty. I do not have them yet. I have asked that they would be fast-tracked as quickly as they possibly can. I have been told by the NSAI that we are talking about another couple of months or before the end of the year. I have said that this is not acceptable and have asked it to fast-track this as quickly as it can. I cannot progress solutions for people under the scheme until the new standards are developed.

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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The problem is not the new standard. The changes in it, although we have not seen it, will alter the situation a little for some people. However, it will not correct the fundamental flaws with the scheme. I know that the Minister of State knows that there are hundreds of people in his constituency who are suffering because of this issue. Having raised the issue at every Question Time involving the Minister, I went to the trouble of drafting legislation to replace the present scheme with one that is based on remediation or certification. The idea is that the scheme, if a house could not be remediated or did not require remediation, would offer a certificate so that the owner could move on with his or her life. I was prevented from even giving that Bill a reading on the grounds that it would involve a cost on the Exchequer even though we had carried out a huge amount of work on it. In other words, the only people who can change the scheme are those in government. Backbenchers will be prevented from proposing legislation on this issue. This is urgent. The flaw in the scheme is that it was based on damage rather than the presence of pyrite. This means that someone whose house has pyrite and is therefore valueless but is not deemed to have enough damage to be remediated is left in total limbo. It is simply unacceptable. These are the victims of the housing bubble that led in essence to the housing crisis. It cannot go on.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I agree with Deputy Clare Daly about being left in limbo. We are trying to find solutions to it. I might sit down and look over her Bill with her, if that is okay, to see where we can use it. The problem at the moment is that under some of the standards, the house is still reported to have a pyrite presence. However, it might not be possible to see physical damage to the house. I have been in houses that have been said to have pyrite although one cannot see anything wrong with them even ten to 12 years after construction. No one will buy those houses and the banks will not give a mortgage to buy such houses. However, it would probably be wrong to spend €60,000 fixing the house to remove the presence of pyrite. It is not an easy circle to square or - the other way round - a square to circle.

I accept that people are left in limbo and we have to find solutions. I have met people and families who want to move one with their lives. Their jobs or lives might have moved onto a different part of the country but they are stuck in the house they have today. I would be happy to try to find solutions but it will not be possible to get the backing of any Department of Finance or Department of Public Expenditure to spend between €60,000 and €80,000 on a house that has no real physical evidence of damage although we know pyrite is present. That is the difficulty. Where a house must be remediated, the scheme is available. Many houses have been fixed at this stage already. More than 700 have already been completed and there is another 400 to 500 in the system, with more than 1,300 applications in total. We are dealing with houses that need to be fixed.

I understand what the Deputy is saying. She is speaking about those who are left in limbo. The solution, however, is not straightforward. I am happy to look at the Deputy's Bill to see if she has a better solution than that which we can find.

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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If a house does not need to be fixed, it would be utterly ridiculous to fix it. No one is proposing that. However, if a property has pyrite, there has to be a system where, it having been studied after another period of time and demonstrated that the damage has not progressed, one could say the level of pyrite has already oxidised and will not develop further or is of such a low level as to be insignificant, meaning that a house could be declared, in essence, pyrite-free. Without the certificate, the only other remedy would be an actual remediation of the property. Those are the only two options. The problem is that we have a remediation scheme that is too restrictive. A house has to be virtually falling down before a person can get onto the scheme. However, on the comfort on the other end if one does not qualify, one cannot get out of jail either. This needs to be built into the scheme. Interestingly, one of the objections raised when I moved the Bill was that there is no definition of a green certificate.

They could not tell me how it is defined even though it is a term used broadly in the industry and we all know what it should be. I will sit down with the Minister of State. I hope he is still here to do that. I do not mean it in a derogatory way but it is very unfortunate that a lot of these key issues will be subsumed by the internal battles in Fine Gael. I hope we can sit down and address it.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I assure the Deputy the internal battles or journey of Fine Gael will not delay anything in our programmes or anything in this matter. It is not as simple as issuing the green certificate. I know what it means. It means one can sell on one's house and people will feel confident to buy it and can get a mortgage on it. I have been in houses that were built 30 or more years ago and pyrite is only now becoming a problem. If there is a presence of pyrite, it is not as simple as being able to tell somebody they can get out of jail or, in other words, that their house is cleared. That is why the standards are being looked at again to see if the testing procedures are right and to see if there is some way to say legitimately that the pyrite will never cause a problem. If one sees a house 30 years on and then a problem is caused by pyrite, it would be very hard for the State to issue a green certificate at a stage when pyrite is present. I would like to find a solution so people are free of it and can move on from it. There are other ways to do it that I am looking at and that I can discuss with the Deputy when we look over her Bill to see if there is some way of doing it with her Bill. I would like to find a solution to this because it affects people I represent and I have seen at first hand the damage it can cause to a family, both financially and socially.