Dáil debates

Wednesday, 24 May 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions

Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

1:50 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Canadian Prime Minister and events during his trip to Canada. [24722/17]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I travelled to Canada between 3 and 6 May. This was the first visit to Canada by a serving Taoiseach in more than a decade and it provided an opportunity to develop and strengthen the important bilateral relationship between our two nations, which share deep historic ties and enjoy strong trading relations. Over the centuries, Canada has been an important destination for Irish immigrants. Today, over 4.5 half million Canadians - more than 14% of the country's population – claim direct Irish ancestry.

During my visit I had a series of engagements with political, business and civic society representatives in Montreal and Toronto and met a number of existing and potential new IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland client companies. These engagements provided very useful opportunities for me to promote Ireland as a location for trade and investment, as well as to emphasise our commitment to the EU and outline Ireland's priorities in the context of Brexit.

While in Montreal, I met Prime Minister Trudeau. We discussed the trade relationship between Ireland and Canada and Ireland's strengths as a location for trade and investment into Europe. We also considered ways to further strengthen the economic and trade relationship between our two countries, and agreed to prioritise the opportunities offered by the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA. I also updated the Prime Minister on Ireland's Brexit priorities and outlined to him the current position in Northern Ireland. The Prime Minister reiterated to me the Canadian Government's continued support for the Northern Ireland peace process. Members will be aware of the part played by John de Chastelain in decommissioning terrorist arms in that process.

Also in Montreal, I attended a business lunch with senior members of the Montreal business community at which I met potential and current investors in Ireland. I also visited the school of Irish studies at Concordia University where I met with members of the Irish diaspora.

In Toronto, I addressed an Enterprise Ireland event and an event hosted by the Ireland Canada Chamber of Commerce, both of which provided me with opportunities to meet current and potential investors in Ireland. I addressed a Tourism Ireland event and visited Ireland Park, the Irish Famine memorial in Toronto, which is a magnificent site . I also paid a courtesy call on the Lieutenant Governor of Ontario, Elizabeth Dowdeswell.

My programme concluded with a meeting with members of the board of the Irish Canada Immigration Centre and other representatives of the Irish diaspora and an event with representatives of the Ireland Fund in Canada.

This was a very successful visit which I believe will provide a platform to further strengthen the bilateral relations between Ireland and Canada. I expect relations will be further enhanced during the trade mission to Canada that will be led by the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, from 30 May to 2 June.

2:00 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Clearly, as in the case of all his foreign excursions, the Taoiseach was certainly not idle; he had a full programme.

I want to ask the Taoiseach about two issues. First, he has acknowledged that he discussed with the Canadian Prime Minister, Mr. Trudeau, the EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, which we now call CETA. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, answered a parliamentary question on 9 May about the parliamentary ratification of CETA. She said that progress on ratification has commenced in 43 national parliaments and regional assemblies throughout the EU and that it would commence in Ireland shortly. When will those of us in this House have a chance to debate fully and determine assent or otherwise to CETA?

It is agreed at EU level that the agreement would have provisional application until such time as it is formally ratified. That is not a position that I object to but it would be useful to have formal approval or at least a debate in the House on the provisional impact of CETA in advance of formal ratification. I am keen to know whether the Taoiseach agrees that we should have useful discussions on the matter.

During the Taoiseach's visit the Canadian Prime Minister warmly praised the accepting of Syrian refugees. Canada has been very good at that. Unfortunately, our record is not so sterling. Let us consider the situation here. Ireland committed to taking 700 asylum seekers from the resettlement camps in Italy last year and a further 459 from Greece. I understand that the Greek migrants have been accepted but that none have come from Italy because of the ongoing difficulty relating to accepting the vetting systems from the Italian authorities. The European Commission has urged Ireland to resolve this matter. How close are we to resolving it? How many of the 2,600 people that we pledged to take have actually arrived in the country to date?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I discussed CETA with the Canadian Prime Minister, Mr. Trudeau. Actually, as Deputy Howlin is aware, Canadian views are very much in line with Irish views on the benefits of trade agreements and the benefits of properly used globalisation for jobs. They are keen to have the agreement operate in the interests of both countries.

Some 50% of foreign direct investment from Canada goes directly to Britain. Since the United Kingdom is moving out of the European Union and the Single Market, this is clearly an opportunity for this business to thrive.

I gather there are now flights from Montreal, Toronto and St. John's to Ireland on a weekly, if not daily, basis. I think four airlines are coming in. They are keen on that.

The agreements provide a range of sectoral opportunities for Irish companies in Canada in financial software, telecommunications, digital technology, agricultural machinery, life sciences and medical devices.

CETA was signed on 30 October 2016 in Brussels by representatives from Canada, EU and member states. The EU and Canada have also agreed a legally binding agreement, a joint interpretative instrument, which has been added to CETA to provide further assurances in respect of public services, labour rights, environmental protection and investment.

A number of steps remain to be taken on both sides before this becomes fully operational. Meanwhile, aspects of CETA will be provisionally applied by both sides beginning, I hope, this summer. The provisional application of the trade agreement is a standard process in agreements of this sort. It allows those parts of the agreement for which the EU has competence to come into force, including reductions in tariffs on our exports, which will apply to 99% of exports. However, the provisions of CETA relating to investment protection will be excluded from provisional application.

The European Parliament voted in favour of the provisional application of CETA in February. The process of ratification is now commencing in member states. Canada is now finalising its internal implementation procedures to allow for ratification. I understand that Canadian Senate approval was secured on 11 May and the Bill now awaits royal assent.

I spoke to Canadians about beef, which was an issue here with the Irish Farmers Association. Canada is allowed 15,000 tonnes under the original agreement. Canada finds this difficult to meet because most beef from Canada goes the other way – it goes west to Asia. CETA increases that but it will be difficult for Canadians to meet that level.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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You are well over time, Taoiseach. You have used three minutes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There will be a Dáil debate, obviously. We will have it as soon as possible.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Will it be this side of the summer break?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I hope so; there is no reason why not.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Canadian Prime Minister, Mr. Trudeau, is keen to get this moving. Under the provisional agreement those of us on the EU side can move on it. Let us have this debate as quickly as we can.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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You will have another opportunity.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In respect of refugees-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I only asked one question.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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You are right.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The question of refugees was raised. Canada is looking for more people. Those who cross the border from the United States, other than at formal crossings, are received with open arms and are being housed. They include 40,000 Syrians. The community in Ballaghaderreen has responded here. They are making wonderful efforts to integrate our Syrian refugee people.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Are we close to resolving the issue with Italy?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The reason that erupted was that the Italian people were suggesting that we should take refugees or people without any vetting. Ireland refuses to do that because we need to know where they are from and, in so far as we can determine it, who they are.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Martin is next.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am unsure whether we are close to resolving it but our people went down there on several occasions.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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We have to be more focused. I realise it was only one question, Deputy Howlin, but there is precedent.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The same applies but it is always in different circumstances. Ireland's relations with Canada have always been excellent, although this is often over-looked due to the importance of our relationship with the United States. Given the new links between Ireland and "Star Wars" movies, it was a pity the Taoiseach did not match the Prime Minister's celebration of 4 May.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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May the force be with you.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have no doubt that when the leadership context is over between the Taoiseach's colleagues, both will be promising to make 4 May a national holiday.

I wish to focus on CETA. In particular, six months ago I asked for a debate on CETA because the issue of free trade is central to our economic development. There have been many loud noises here. We have heard that the loudest vessels make the emptiest noises, but I do not want to be that-----

Photo of Michael CreedMichael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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Empty vessels make the loudest noises.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The point I am making is that there has been a certain narrative abroad suggesting that any free trade agreement is anathema to Ireland's interests, and that they are evil and should be condemned. CETA has been condemned even before it has been debated here.

I remember when I was Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment I opened an Enterprise Ireland office in Toronto. Why did we open an office there? It was to get access and provide information and networking for Irish companies to sell their goods and services.

The economy of Ireland depends on selling its goods and services abroad. There are people in this House who believe that we should stop all of that and cut it at the knees. That is the view from the anti-austerity people. Sinn Féin has a negative view of free trade agreements too. We seldom hear positive affirmation of the idea of free trade in this House or of the idea that, as a small island economy, we need to sell our goods and services abroad, including food, intellectual property, project management services and so on. We are fantastic at software. Many countries throughout the world are keen to access our software. The same applies to pharmaceutical technology and so on. If we go down the road of protectionism and try to put up shutters, then we will ruin the Irish economy in future. There must be some resistance or balance in the debate in this House.

That is why I am critical of the fact that a debate has not been scheduled. It need not be a debate for approval; it could simply be an open debate on the merits of a free trade agreement with Canada, which shares the same standards, by and large, environmentally and in the food industry. Across the board Canada has the same type of liberal open democratic economy and society that we enjoy. Of course there is toing and froing and give and take in such agreements. For God's sake, we should be urging the conclusion of this agreement between the European Union and Canada. It will be to the betterment of Irish companies, including small and medium-sized enterprises, but we never hear that.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Time is up.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We hear the opposite. We here a torrent of negativity about the whole concept of free trade. I put it to the Taoiseach that we need that sorted with a debate. I call on the Taoiseach to indicate what measures Irish firms are taking to benefit directly from this agreement.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with all the positive remarks about Canada. I have been there many times and I have family there.

There are very deep links with people here, particularly among people in the North and particularly those who live in Toronto. However, notwithstanding the Fianna Fáil leader's protestations, there are concerns about the implications of the Canada-EU Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, especially among farmers, workers and small and medium indigenous companies. The Government has ignored those and there has been no debate on these issues. This is the place where we should have had this debate and I have been asking for one for some time. The only vote in these Houses was in the Seanad, which called on the Government not to ratify the deal. The European Court of Justice, which took the EU-Singapore free trade agreement, FTA, as a test case determined that these new agreements can only been concluded by the EU and member states acting together and by the state parliaments having a vote on them.

There needs to be a debate. The Government has signed up to this provisional application of the deal at EU level without any deference to the Dáil. We have been given legal opinion to the effect that a referendum would be required before the Government can sign the final agreement on CETA. Does the Government have advice? Has it sought a legal opinion from the Attorney General and what is the Taoiseach's view of this issue?

2:10 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree. We will have a debate on free trade with Canada in respect of the Deputy's request. I will see that it happens. It is a very good thing. For the Deputy's information, the provisional application is a standard part of trade agreements and allows those parts of the agreement on which the EU has competence to proceed. CETA provides for provisional application, as the process for ratification across all member states may take a number of years. In Ireland's case, the Dáil will be part of the final decision, which is not what the Deputy was talking about there but a debate on the benefits of free trade. The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine has observed many times that we export Irish agricultural products to over 180 countries and that is where our strength is built, the Deputy rightly points out. The Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation supports the provisional application as it allows for Irish medium-sized enterprises to export tariff-free to Canada.

Finally, I point out that 38,000 emigrants from Ireland - immigrants to Canada - went to Toronto in 1847, when the population of that city was only 20,000. They were welcomed with open arms. I want to commend Robert Kearns and his people on the wonderful memorial they have built on the shores of the lake there to those Irish emigrants. They are now moving to commemorate the medics who worked with people from the Irish community, many of whom died from diseases such as typhoid and cholera. This is an important debate which we will have.