Dáil debates
Tuesday, 23 May 2017
Ceisteanna - Questions
Cabinet Committee Meetings
3:55 pm
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach when the next meeting of the Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action will take place. [23019/17]
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action last met; and when it will meet again. [23088/17]
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action last met; and when it will meet again. [23089/17]
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action last met; and when it will meet again. [24333/17]
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach the number of times the Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action has met since June 2016. [24366/17]
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach his Department's role in Ireland's infrastructure planning; and if there is an official involved in this from his Department. [24676/17]
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 6, inclusive, together.
The Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action has met on five occasions since it was reconstituted in June 2016. The last meeting of the Cabinet committee took place on 15 May 2017. The next meeting of the Cabinet committee will be scheduled shortly.
My Department provides the secretariat to the Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action and chairs the associated senior officials' group. The Cabinet committee oversees the development and delivery of key infrastructure and associated policy, including oversight of relevant commitments in A Programme for a Partnership Government. In addition, the committee addresses the climate-change challenge in terms of domestic policy and in relation to Ireland's EU and international obligations.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I appreciate that the Taoiseach is currently in a handover position in respect of his Government. Nonetheless he has always been extremely diligent regarding all the Cabinet committees he has chaired. The review of the capital programme is under way. There is an unallocated €2.65 billion extra to be committed. That has been the understanding up to now. As I said earlier, the European Commission in the country-specific recommendations took an ultra-conservative line regarding Ireland and basically dismissed our hopes of an expanded capital programme by reducing the fiscal space by €7 billion over the next three years, which is a significant amount. In addition last week the Dáil passed the motion on AIB saying that any proceeds raised should go to capital investment.
It appears that the Department of Finance has co-operated with the European Commission in making essentially a political choice that the fiscal space, particularly regarding the capital programme, over the next three years should be reduced. This is a major economic decision which will influence-----
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy. We have limited time.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----the investment in infrastructure, public transport particularly-----
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We need to get an answer now, Deputy.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----in housing and in all the other areas like education and health that require capital finance.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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As a number of people are offering on this, we need to stick to the time limits.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy rightly points out, under the mid-term review, the Government will confirm the allocation of the additional €5.14 billion committed for capital investment. Following commitments made in the budget for 2017 and the increase in funding for housing, there is approximately €2.65 billion in uncommitted additional capital through to 2021. Submissions from the Departments are being received by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. Public consultation was undertaken in April to inform the view of the capital plan. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform will assess the submissions received from Departments and make recommendations to Government in the third quarter of 2017 to inform the Government's final decision on revised capital allocations to be announced in the context of the budget for 2018, which will obviously take place in October.
The review of the plan will take place in two stages. Phase 1 will be a focused review of priorities, aimed primarily at advising Government in the context of budget 2018 on how the additional capital funding committed by Government should be allocated over the remainder of the plan.
Phase 2 will assess and report on the framework required to underpin longer-term analysis of Ireland's infrastructural planning needs. In my address to the Institute of International and European Affairs, Ireland at the Heart of a Changing European Union, I reaffirmed that the national planning framework for spatial planning due to be finalised later this year will be complemented with a longer-term ten-year capital plan.
4:05 pm
Carol Nolan (Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Taoiseach accept that the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill, which commenced Report Stage in the Dáil last week, has failed to legislate for a key recommendation of the Mahon report into planning corruption?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Could Deputy Nolan repeat the question please?
Carol Nolan (Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Taoiseach accept that the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2016, which commenced Report Stage in the Dáil last week, has failed to legislate for a key recommendation of the Mahon tribunal report into planning corruption?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Which element of the Mahon tribunal is Deputy Nolan talking about?
Carol Nolan (Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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There are several issues. There is another issue in terms of the shortfall of almost €400 million in the available funding in the next four years and what the Minister, Deputy Coveney, said was needed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In respect of the capital expenditure programme, the six-year capital plan published in 2015 set out an Exchequer capital spend of €27 billion. Including the wider semi-State sector and public private partnerships, the total State-backed capital investment is €42 billion. That will support more than 45,000 construction-related jobs. A Programme for a Partnership Government committed to additional capital investment to be allocated in areas such as transport, housing, broadband, health, education, flood defences etc. on the basis of the outcome of the mid-term review of the capital plan. In the summer economic statement of 2016, the Government committed to an additional €5.14 billion in Exchequer capital funding over the period 2017 to 2021. Clearly, the programme for capital investment is very extensive at €42 billion, including all of the different elements of the sector.
Carol Nolan (Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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There is also an issue-----
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, I am sorry. I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I wish to ask about the local infrastructure housing activation fund, LIHAF. Cherrywood in my constituency will be a virtual new town of 8,000 residences. A total of €15 million will be given to Hines, the private developers that got most of the site at a very substantial discount from NAMA and which stands to make a hell of a lot of money. Average house prices in Dún Laoghaire are about half a million euro if not €600,000. The developers will make an awful lot of money. They got a discount from NAMA to get the land; they are getting a discount on the development levies and they are getting €15 million from the infrastructure fund for the public to effectively build the infrastructure to make the site ready for development. Out of that we are only getting 10% back in social housing. Will the Government please ask for more than 10%, given the huge State subsidy that is effectively being given to the private property developers who have the site? If we got a reasonable percentage of that land - well above 10%, which was originally NAMA land and should never have been sold - we could solve the housing crisis in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown. Will the Government put conditions on that money to demand that we get considerably more than 10% back in social housing in Cherrywood and other similar developments?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I note Deputy Boyd Barrett did not set out the percentage sought. One does not want every development to be-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I would like 100%.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy cannot have that. Is Deputy Boyd Barrett saying we should put all 8,000 social housing residences on one site?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We can have social and affordable.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He does not believe that.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We will get 90% of private housing.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Social and affordable housing is different to social housing.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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A 50:50 ratio would do.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is Deputy Boyd Barrett suggesting that 8,000 social houses should be put together on one site in Dún Laoghaire or anywhere else?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It could be 50:50 social and affordable.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett knows that is not the way it should be, and that one needs a mix of housing types spanning social, affordable, private and so on. There are more development sites for social housing in Dún Laoghaire than the Cherrywood site.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Cherrywood development could solve the housing crisis in the area.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett should please allow the Taoiseach to reply without interruption.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I think the essence of the Deputy's question is whether we can change the balance of the extent of social housing on the site.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Yes.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I assume the Cherrywood development has already been designed and agreed to achieve a mix of 8,000 residences of various types in an area where there is a massive demand and there has been a lack of supply of housing for some time.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The people who are demanding housing cannot afford half a million euro.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The mix of social housing was not decided by the Government. Deputy Boyd Barrett wants more social housing but others might want less and some might want 100%.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Nobody wants less.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will bring Deputy Boyd Barrett's query to the attention of the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is fair to say that the work of Government seems to be even more sidelined now that the election campaign is under way for the new Fine Gael leader.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The current contest is very interesting and revealing, perhaps more so than the party might have wished. It is interesting that the Minister for Social Protection was using his regular weekend media briefing to promote his views on what he modestly called a dramatic infrastructure plan. Many outside observers saw the reports and wondered whether he was simply announcing the much heralded infrastructure plan, which is apparently ready to go and has been discussed by the Cabinet committee on infrastructure. Can the Taoiseach confirm that the committee has been looking at the revised capital plan and infrastructure plan? The Taoiseach informed the House earlier this year of the membership of the Cabinet committee on infrastructure and it is surprising that the Minister for Social Protection is not on the list. I do not think he is a member of it. This suggests that one of his colleagues, or choirboys as Deputy Kate O'Connell would label them, has been helping him and has supplied him with the specifics in order that he could put them into his election plans. The Minister has said he is a visionary thinker so that must clearly be a misunderstanding of mine. I do not think the Minister would go so far as to claim credit for the work of the infrastructure committee, work for which he has no responsibility. Could the Taoiseach indicate to me whether he has put in place measures to protect the work of Government from the internal party campaign?
Does the Taoiseach accept the Government's limit on public private partnerships is too low in terms of the contribution they could make to both housing and infrastructure in general?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I think Deputy Martin has some experience of that himself. It is always difficult to get PPPs that work effectively and that can be streamlined to a point where they deliver well. The bundles of secondary schools, of which the Deputy had some experience himself in his time as Minister, have evolved to a very presentable, effective way of delivering high-class building in a short time. As far as I am aware, they have all been under budget and on time. Some of the schools I have been in are enormous and provide every conceivable facility for people to do their job.
The role of the committee is to drive the development and the delivery of key infrastructure and associated policy, including the role of NewERA in support of sustainable economic development, job creation and better quality of life. It plays a role in overseeing Ireland's transition to a low-carbon economy, including co-ordination of international negotiations, obligations on energy and climate change and provides oversight of relevant commitments in A Programme for a Partnership Government. As I indicated previously, there is a €42 billion programme involving 45,000 construction jobs. I was talking to some of the developers and operators recently and I was informed that construction on the Gort to Tuam motorway scheme and the New Ross bypass are under way. I think the Gort to Tuam motorway is ahead of time and will make a major impact.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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When can we expect to see the new plan?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I refer to the revised infrastructure plan on which we all made submissions.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It has not come before Cabinet yet but I think it will shortly.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is that a different plan to the one we heard announced?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Is that the capital review plan?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The €42 billion plan is the one that is under review at the moment, in respect of the €5 billion to be allocated, but the expanded version of that dealing with PPPs and other sectors brings it to €42 billion between now and the mid-2020s.
4:15 pm
Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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In my mind there was not much of a plan; it is a bit rich that the man who killed the metro would claim he is going to be the great one who will bring it back.
I wish to ask the Taoiseach a separate question regarding the national climate dialogue on climate change. Last night's debate on RTE's "Claire Byrne Live" showed the environmental community's deep frustration that we have not had a proper dialogue on climate. We seem to be stuck in a completely outdated "is it real or is it not" debate within our national media rather than the really important debate that is needed on the solutions to the problem. We do not need me and Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice at loggerheads with each other; we need to work together to get solutions. I understand that the committee for the national climate dialogue has been selected and notified but will the Taoiseach indicate when it will first meet? Would the Taoiseach see a way to bring in media such as RTE and some of the newspapers in order that they can partake in such a system? How will it connect with the Citizens' Assembly? We must make submissions for September on how the Citizens' Assembly might consider this issue. In this process, could we ratchet up a gear our national understanding of what we need to do and what the solutions might be? Perhaps the Taoiseach will give us some more detail on when the committee will be announced and when the chairman will be selected.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Ryan will be aware of the public consultation that took place on the draft national mitigation plan, and which closed on 26 April with 124 submissions received. A number of important issues were raised regarding the adequacy of the current policy responses and the clarity of national sector plans in meeting Ireland's national and European targets. The Departments are working with the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment to review the submissions with a view to strengthening the draft plan ahead of its presentation to Government next month. The Minister, Deputy Naughten, is establishing the advisory group - and Deputies are aware of this - to guide the activities of the national dialogue during its initial two-year phase. That membership will be drawn from public, private and NGO bodies. The first meeting of the advisory group is to take place in June this year. The group will be supported by a secretariat within the Environmental Protection Agency, which will also manage the administration of the dialogue. Regional gatherings will take place, to begin in the autumn of 2017, and it is also proposed that the dialogue will include the national climate change action and awareness programme in schools and communities. This includes the Green-Schools scheme, expert lectures, and climate expos and events around the climate implications of spatial choices. The advisory group meets in June and there will be an opportunity to set out a comprehensive and worthwhile strategy and to take into account the points made by Deputy Ryan.