Dáil debates

Tuesday, 16 May 2017

Other Questions

Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement

5:50 pm

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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53. To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation her plans to facilitate a Dáil Éireann debate on the CETA before the summer recess; the reason a debate has not been held to date; and her views on whether the investment court system is compliant with Bunreacht na hÉireann. [23033/17]

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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55. To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the status of the EU-Canada comprehensive econimic and trade agreement; the status of the transatlantic trade and investment partnership negotiations; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [22956/17]

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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56. To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation if she will provide the source of her information from the European Union on which chapters of the CETA will be provisionally applied and which will not, which she described to Dáil Éireann on 23 March 2017; the dates these provisional applications in each chapter are expected to take place; and if she will report on the area of transport which was not mentioned. [22662/17]

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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64. To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the way in which the regulatory co-operation forum set up by the CETA agreement will function; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [23040/17]

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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Deputies Thomas P. Broughan, Maureen O'Sullivan and Mick Wallace will also be speaking. I have asked the Minister the question before. Will she facilitate a Dáil debate on the CETA before the summer recess? Why has a debate not been held to date? Does she believe the investment court system is compliant with the Constitution? Does she believe we will have to have a referendum on the issue?

Photo of Mary Mitchell O'ConnorMary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 53, 55, 56 and 64 together.

On 30 October 2016 the EU-Canada comprehensive economic and trade agreement, CETA, was signed by representatives from Canada, the European Union and its member states. On 15 February 2017 the European Parliament voted in support of the provisional application of the CETA. As I have said many times before in the House, the provisions relating to investment protection, investment dispute settlement and the investment court system are excluded from the provisional application. The main provisions offering new opportunities for Irish industry and business will come into force once Canada has completed its own procedures.

The process of ratification can now commence in the member states according to their constitutional requirements. In Ireland’s case, the Dáil will be part of the final decision to ratify the agreement. Canada is finalising its internal implementation procedures to allow for its ratification of the agreement. It is expected that the CETA will provisionally apply from summer 2017. The Council's decision on provisional application of the CETA is available on the public register of documents on the Council's website. The document reference number is 10974/16.The decision provides that the majority of the provisions of the agreement will be provisionally applied.

Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan has asked which chapters will be provisionally applied and which will not. The position is that only Articles 8.1 to 8.8, inclusive, Article 8.13, Article 8.15, with the exception of paragraph 3, and Article 8.16 will be provisionally applied in chapter 8 and only in so far as foreign direct investment is concerned. Paragraphs 3 and 4 of Article 13.2, Article 13.3 and Article 13.4, Article 13.9 and Article 13.21 of chapter 13 shall not be provisionally applied in so far as they concern portfolio investment, protection of investment or the resolution of investment disputes between investors and states. Article 20.12, Article 27.3 and Article 27.4 and paragraph 7 of Article 28.7 shall not be provisionally applied. The provisional application of chapters 22 to 24, inclusive, of the agreement shall respect the allocation of competences between the European Union and the member states.

On Deputy Mick Wallace's question, the CETA will establish a regulatory co-operation forum to discuss regulatory issues of mutual interest and develop bilateral co-operation activities. The forum is expected to enhance information sharing between Canadian and EU regulators, facilitate the development of more compatible regulatory measures, resulting in fewer barriers to trade and making it easier for the European Union to do business in Canada. The forum will be co-chaired by a senior representative of the Government of Canada and a senior representative of the European Commission and relevant officials from the European Union and Canada. The forum cannot change existing legislation or develop new legislation on its own and will not have any decision-making powers. It can only make recommendations to regulators and legislators. Any initiative entailing a change in EU regulations can only be introduced and pursued outside the CETA framework in compliance with the ordinary legislative procedure of the European Union.

I fully support provisional application of the agreement. I am of the view that there should be no impediment to Irish companies immediately taking advantage of the provisions of the CETA, including eliminating tariffs on almost all key exports, access to the Canadian procurement market, easing regulatory barriers and ensuring more transparent rules for market access such as a single website for public procurement.

To answer Deputy Maurice Quinlivan's question, it is important to wait to see the benefits of the CETA come into being before the CETA is put before the Dáil for ratification. We can then have a fully informed, evidence-based debate on the value of the agreement to Ireland.

To address Deputy Thomas P. Broughan's question on the EU-US transatlantic trade and investment partnership, TTIP, following the US presidential election, the negotiations are effectively on hold.

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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I have previously made my position crystal clear. I have asked the Minister if she thinks we need to hold a referendum, but she has not answered that question. It is vitally important that elected representatives in Ireland have the opportunity to scrutinise this trade deal and debate in the Dáil the pros and cons. On numerous occasions I have called for a debate to be held on the CETA, yet the Government continues to ignore the issue. Sinn Féin has serious concerns about aspects of the deal and believes parts of it will have a negative impact on Irish SMEs and the farming community, in particular. Legal advice obtained by my colleague, Matt Carthy, MEP, has indicated that the investment court system contained in the CETA is not compliant with the Constitution. The approach of implementing first and debating later is a drastic departure from normal democratic principles. The only conclusion to which I can come as to why the Government will not facilitate a debate on this topic is that the deficiencies in the agreement will be highlighted by Opposition parties, including us. The Minister has not answered my questions. I again ask her to outline a date for when the agreement will be debated in the Dáil.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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With the permission of the Members, I will take the four supplementary questions together.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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It is extraordinary for the Minister to say we will provisionally apply many sections of the CETA agreement without having a debate in the House and without seeking its approval. It seems to be an extraordinary way to proceed, given, in particular, the decision of the European Court of Justice on the Singapore Agreement that the approval of national parliaments was required when there was an investor state dispute settlement mechanism. On the positive side of the CETA, will it involve the Department's agencies such as IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland liaising with provincial governments in Canada and the Atlantic provinces, Quebec and Ontario?

It has been asserted that 99% of tariffs have been removed. In terms of the 1% of tariffs that remain, to what areas or goods do they apply?

I went to the reading room in the Department to get some information on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, TTIP. I examined some of the grave concerns that were expressed about that agreement. The Minister has said that TTIP is now totally on ice because of President Trump's attitude to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, TPP, and to the North American Free Trade Agreement, NAFTA, which involves Canada. Is the Department still working on the basis that there is a possibility that the TTIP negotiations will resume at some point in the future?

6:00 pm

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I hope the information provided by the Minister in her response will clarify what chapters and what sections of chapters are provisionally included. I have been told by people who have been trawling through the EU documents that there is a lack of real, reliable and specific information in the public domain on the provisional application. There was an EU press release which said that the investment court system, ICS, that is supposed to reform the investor-state dispute settlement, ISDS, within CETA has no basis in fact or law. It is not mentioned at all in the CETA legal text. It is vital, therefore, that we await the judgment of the European Court of Justice. A ruling was made on the EU-Singapore agreement that trade agreements with ISDS are mixed agreements and will require the unanimous agreement of the European Council of Ministers and ratification at EU, national and regional levels.

When will the provisional application begin? There are real fears that this could be a race to the bottom and that we will be looking at very poor quality jobs that will not provide a decent income.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I asked the Minister to outline the way in which the regulatory co-operation forum set up under the CETA agreement will function. In response, the Minister told me that it will mean fewer barriers and will make it easier for EU countries to do business. She also said that the forum will only be able to make recommendations. It will have no effect on how regulations are formulated. The Minister is telling us that the forum is just a talking shop with no power. It is just another smoke screen and will not serve any real purpose.

The Minister said that the forum will make it easier for EU countries to do business. This Government regularly boasts that this is a great little country in which to do business and it is - for big business. If one has a small business or a family business, this is not an easy country in which to do business. It is a great place if one is running a multinational corporation or a large foreign direct investment company but trying to run a small business in Ireland today is not easy.

CETA will make the playing field even less level and more unfair and I cannot see how it will benefit the people of Ireland.

Photo of Mary Mitchell O'ConnorMary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Wallace made reference to small businesses. There are approximately 285,000 small business owners in this country employing approximately 700,000 people. I assure Deputy Wallace that my focus, as well as that of my Department and the Ministers of State, is to make sure that jobs are coming through. Believe it or not, we are embarking on a trade mission to Canada next week and more than 25 Irish companies will be taking part. The only reason they are going there is to sell their products and when they do, that will create jobs and that is what is important to us. It is vitally important that we go out and find markets because of Brexit. As Minister, I am fully in favour of going to Canada and finding whatever business we can.

I love listening to the Deputies talking about poor jobs, small jobs and badly paid jobs but these companies are paying well. There are Canadian companies in Ireland employing approximately 2,800 people. Those companies have invested almost €11 billion in Ireland. It is also interesting to look at Irish companies trading with Canadian companies. In 2015, foreign direct investment stocks in Canada from Ireland amounted to over €4 billion. There are over 400 Enterprise Ireland client companies doing business in Canada and please God, as a result of our trade mission next week, there will be more companies doing business with that country. There are 50 Irish companies with a local presence in Canada employing an estimated 6,000 people. These are Enterprise Ireland clients and they include Kingspan, Leading Edge, Keyword Studios and the Kerry Group. In 2015, Enterprise Ireland client companies exported more than €280 million worth of goods and services to the Canadian market. When I hear that, I know that it equals jobs. Export growth to Canada among Enterprise Ireland clients was greater than 7% in 2015 and was 14% in 2014.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I now invite the Deputies to ask a short supplementary question.

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister mentioned that she will be visiting Canada on a trade mission at the end of the month, during which she will discuss CETA and other issues. It would be beneficial to have a debate in the Dáil before then to ensure that the Minister and the Government are made aware of the very real concerns of various sectors about this agreement. The decision of the European Court of Justice this morning outlines that EU trade deals that include investor protection must be ratified by all 38 national and regional parliaments. This is a very welcome decision which ensures that member states will retain control over major trade decisions into the future. What is the Minister's response to the European Court of Justice's decision this morning? Will the Irish Parliament debate and vote on CETA?

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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The figures the Minister read out are quite impressive and I hope she will pursue that area vigorously. I read recently that Toronto has four very strong GAA clubs. There is a large network of young Irish men and women emigrants across the Canadian provinces, which provides great connections for us. That said, all our citizens would like us to debate the agreement. Why are we embarking on the provisional implementation of the treaty when so many, not least those in our agricultural sector, still have grave concerns about the agreement?

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I have a specific concern regarding transport too. As an insight into the post-CETA world and ISDS, Canada has already sued the EU in attempt to get it to lower its standards on endocrine disrupters, potentially cancerous pesticides and plastics and wires, including those found in children's toys. That kind of action will increase and there is a likelihood of further pressure from Canada on the EU to drop some of its protections.

Next Tuesday I am holding a meeting in the audiovisual room on CETA. It would be great if the Minister could attend-----

Photo of Mary Mitchell O'ConnorMary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I will be in Canada.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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-----or an official from her Department. I hope we can thrash out some of the issues that are coming up with regard to CETA and that we can debunk some of the myths around the agreement.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I am pretty fond of going to Canada too. Indeed, I worked there for a couple of years. I am all in favour of us exporting to Canada but that does mean that I should be in favour of the fact that CETA will challenge some regulations. There is no doubt that there will be a drop in certain standards to meet the interests of big business and the public will be poorly served by that. If there is a reduction in regulations that will have an impact on workers' rights and on the environment. We are all in favour of exporting to other countries and creating jobs but not for the price of downgraded working conditions and reduced environmental standards.

Photo of Mary Mitchell O'ConnorMary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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On the question of Dáil ratification, it is important that we wait to see the benefits of CETA coming into being before putting the agreement to the Dáil. Then we can have a fully informed, evidence based debate on the value of the agreement to Ireland. Reference was made to meat and worries about meat production.

I would like to refer to a letter sent from Meat Industry Ireland, which is under the stewardship of IBEC. While it urges "strict caution on the EU's approach to tariff-reduced or tariff-free meat import access as part of trade agreements", it supports "the ratification of the trade agreement between the EU and Canada". I remind the House that 14% of the Irish diaspora live in Canada. We have sought to ensure we can open trade with Canada as a response to Brexit, which is coming down the tracks. The Ministers of State, Deputies Eoghan Murphy and Pat Breen, and the Taoiseach have been to Canada. As I have said, I am leading a trade mission with really good Enterprise Ireland businesses and companies with the hope of winning more trade, more investment into Ireland and more jobs. I am not going to apologise. I think we are on the right route. I think this is the way to go.