Dáil debates

Wednesday, 12 April 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions

National Emergency Plan

2:45 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach the role his Department has in the event of a national emergency. [16727/17]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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National emergency planning and management in this country is based on the lead Department principle, that is, the Department with lead responsibility in the area in question takes the lead in co-ordinating the response to the emergency.

The framework for major emergency management lists some 50 types of emergency and sets out the lead Department for each. The framework is available on the website of the office for emergency planning in the Department of Defence and is currently being updated.

When a co-ordinated national level emergency response is required, the lead Department will request the office of emergency planning to convene a meeting of the national emergency co-ordination group. The national emergency co-ordination centre is activated and staff from the office of emergency planning provide support to the lead Department in chairing the national emergency co-ordination group.

My Department does not have a lead Department responsibility. However, if the nature of the emergency warranted a special Government meeting, my Department, with my agreement and at the request of the lead Department and the national emergency co-ordination group, would call such a meeting.

In addition, officials of my Department attend national emergency co-ordination committee meetings in support of the lead Department and I am briefed as required as the emergency progresses. Also, a representative of the Government information service attends such meetings and provides support as required for the provision of information to the media.

As the question relates to emergencies, I am sure the House will wish to join me in expressing our appreciation of the work and commitment of Ireland's emergency services. This was shown most recently in the loss of Coast Guard helicopter Rescue 116 and I wish to express my sincere sympathy to the families of Dara Fitzpatrick and Mark Duffy, and also to the families of Paul Ormsby and Ciarán Smith, who are still missing. I also thank all the members of the emergency services and indeed all those who have been taking part in the search for Paul and Ciarán and those who have been supporting them. The local community in general and the people of Blacksod have shown absolutely phenomenal support during these difficult days. Last weekend, there was an extraordinary turnout from all over the country, not just the local region, with every kind of facility searching the thousand square miles in the hope that one or both of the bodies could be recovered. We hope and pray that they will be found soon.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I associate myself and my party with the remarks of the Taoiseach with regard to the ongoing search for the two missing crewmen of Rescue 116. There has been extraordinary public support and anguish empathising with the bereaved. These are people who have selflessly given their lives in this instance to support communities. I am reminded of that every time I cross Wexford Bridge to go home and see the flag at the RNLI station permanently at half-mast until those bodies are recovered.

With regard to emergency planning, in the past we talked about what might constitute an emergency, such as a nuclear explosion at a British nuclear plant and how that would impact on us. I do not want to get the Taoiseach into trouble, as I know a former Minister of State got into a lot of bother answering a question like this about iodine pills many years ago. I believe we need to think beyond just those sorts of incidents. Please God there will not be an explosion or mishap in a nuclear institution in Britain, but we have to plan for that.

A much more likely attack is a possible terrorist attack. We would be foolish to think that we are immune from that in this jurisdiction. I know that An Garda Síochána monitors some people in this country and so on. We need to up our game in this area. I believe it is a good thing that part of the review of An Garda Síochána will look at whether we need a bespoke security agency bringing together the best of military intelligence with Garda intelligence.

The cybersecurity area is where we are probably most prone to attack. It could cripple us. Over the years, all of our Departments have been subject to cyber attacks, some of which did not go into the public domain. It could have been absolutely crippling if, for example, the Department of Social Protection was shut down by a cyber attack. It would be hugely disabling for us. With regard to preparing for eventualities now in a completely changed environment in which even a football team on the way to a football match is not immune to attack, does the Taoiseach think we need to up our own game? I ask for his own thoughts on the need now perhaps to have a bespoke security agency separate from normal policing, which would in a way free An Garda Síochána to be the community police force it was initially envisaged to be, and on the need to up our game to prepare ourselves for the real challenges that exist.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is a very valid question that Deputy Howlin raises. The way these are structured depends on the emergency. If it is infectious animal diseases, feedstuff contamination or food safety, the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine would obviously take the lead. Tsunami warnings, communication services, ICT, cyber attacks or energy are led by the Department of Communications, Climate Action and the Environment. Nuclear accidents will move under the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment as well. Hazardous materials, radioactive contamination, environmental pollution, severe weather flooding response, coastal erosion, water supplies, fire, landslide response, building collapse, accidental explosions-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There are probably not emergency experts for each of those areas in each Department.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They are the lead Departments for those kinds of emergencies. I take the Deputy's point, for instance, in respect of cyber attacks. We now have such an enormous investment in digitisation in so many companies throughout the country. This is an issue that needs to be looked at. By coincidence, I have called a security meeting for tomorrow, arising from the incident in Sweden and the incident involving the football team, Borussia Dortmund. These are things that we cannot be distant from. We are a non-aligned, non-aggressive country, and though the threat is always present, it is not at a high level in Ireland and we try to keep it that way.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Sweden would have thought the same.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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However, as the Deputy pointed out, it is not beyond a possibility that issues can arise in Ireland.

In respect of the commission that is going to look at the root and branch analysis of the kind of police force that we need for the next five, ten and 20 years, this is certainly a subject that should be discussed in the context of intelligence, where it should come from, whether it should be shared, what the entities are, what the roles of the Department of Defence and military intelligence are, what the real responsibility of policing is as against security and all that goes with that now, given the nature of cross-country intelligence, digitisation and the way information flows from one to the other. Other areas like aviation security and terrorist activities are issues that are led by the lead Department, but as Deputy Howlin will know, Government will respond immediately in the unlikely event, we hope, of any of these things happening. I take the Deputy's central point that perhaps the Oireachtas should have the opportunity to reflect on these things. In respect of the central issue, once the commission is set up by the Tánaiste for a detailed analysis of the future of both policing and security, it is something on which we should reflect and for which we should make arrangements.

2:55 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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2 o’clock

When an emergency happens in Britain, everybody expects what is known as COBRA, which is basically the Cabinet Office emergency unit, to come into existence under the auspices of the British Prime Minister. Is it appropriate that we would have our own prime ministerial command centre to deal with any emergency that might arise and to bring in the particular expertise we need? Bluntly, it is not my experience that one would go through the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine or the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment. There are experts in every Department, right down to the Department of Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, although I do not know what issue would affect it - maybe the collapse of a national monument. We certainly do not have that skill set available in every single Department and it seems unnecessary to have it available. What is needed for a country of our size is one set of crisis managers who can take command under the auspices of the Taoiseach and regardless of whether it is an agricultural issue, a food issue or a nuclear issue, bring in whatever expertise is needed to assist in the management of that. Is there a view that a COBRA-style office might at least be discussed?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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When we talk about national emergency and the role of the Department of the Taoiseach, it is opportune to again express thanks to all in the emergency services who put themselves in harm's way on a daily basis for the citizens of this country and those who visit. In particular, as Deputy Howlin said, we remember the crew of Rescue 116, Dara Fitzpatrick, Mark Duffy, Paul Ormsby and Ciaran Smith and their heroic contribution to life saving in this country.

I put it to the Taoiseach that our current national arrangements for emergency management have effectively been left unchanged since they were first introduced by Deputy O'Dea a decade ago. Even though the scale and nature of potential emergencies has evolved dramatically since then, all structures are the same and there is no legislation concerning co-ordination of a State response to a major emergency. Ireland is one of the only countries in the world without any form of statute legislation concerning the structure for responding to national emergencies, such as widespread flooding or a public health disaster. It is the consistent model internationally that the prime minister's office takes the lead responsibility. I believe it is time for us to review our structures and implement appropriate legislation.

I met recently with the professional representatives of our Defence Forces, the Army in particular. It was shocking to listen to some of the revelations. For example, in Kilworth Camp, so low is the strength, the requisite number of corporals are not available to facilitate live fire tactical training, so they cannot do the training. The Air Corps is essentially a nine-to-five operation and is not in a position to do 24-7 operations. I understand there were fundamental changes in the bomb disposal unit and the exit of very experienced bomb disposal personnel. I agree with Deputy Howlin in regard to our state of readiness in the context of a terrorist attack. We are far too complacent, as a country, in regard to that threat and we should do far more to prepare our responses.

The Defence Forces have been in decline and numbers are below strength. Is it not time to have a proper review of structures to ensure we have the capacity to respond to these potential emergencies?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy is aware, we have provided significant funding for naval vessels as part of the operation of the Defence Forces. The Office of Emergency Planning, which is in the Department of Defence, co-ordinates the response to an emergency and it promotes best practice in emergency planning. The Government task force on emergency planning is comprised of representatives of all Departments and relevant agencies and it meets regularly to discuss emergency planning and management. The framework for major emergency management lists various types of emergencies, some of which I read out to Deputy Howlin.

The Office of Emergency Planning has prepared a draft document entitled, Strategic Emergency Management - National Structures and Framework. That is due to come to Government very shortly and we will publish it before the summer so people can reflect on the very issue that Deputies Micheál Martin and Howlin rightly raise. When an emergency occurs that requires a national level response, the current guidelines for co-ordinating a national level emergency crisis response, which are publicly available on the Office of Emergency Planning website, set out the steps that are taken to manage it. In a national emergency, the lead Department convenes the national emergency co-ordination committee. The paper that is to be presented will provide a forum to discuss these central questions.

Deputies will be aware of the vigilance of the Garda and the intelligence units in monitoring a small number of individuals who do not have this country's interests at heart. That is a very precise and confidential matter.

Deputy Martin raised the question of the Air Corps. There are cadets in training and a cadet recruitment campaign is underway. Four personnel will complete air traffic control training between May and September this year and the Air Corps is currently inducting a further air traffic control course. NCO vacancies in the Air Corps will be filled from the recently-launched NCO promotion competition. Deputy Martin is aware that when somebody qualifies through the Air Corps, they are on contract for 12 years before they have the opportunity to leave, so it is not a question of training people and they then leave for private enterprise as soon as they are trained. There is a period of contract which they give back to the State in respect of the training they receive.

I would be happy to associate with the party leaders in regard to the central question raised by Deputy Howlin.