Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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29. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if he will explain the application of the HP Deprivation Index to schools for inclusion of those schools in the DEIS programme; the discrepancies in relation to the recent list of DEIS schools in the programme; and if the DEIS programme was ready when it was published initially. [17091/17]

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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What I am seeking in terms of this question is information relating to the process for inclusion of schools in the DEIS programme. We have heard a lot about census figures and the HP deprivation index and what it comprises but we have not heard on what basis it was applied to individual schools. There has been a real failing in that regard. Since I last raised this issue in the Dáil, there has been a controversy around schools wrongly on the list and schools that were not included. There has been controversy in the media this week by one of the originators of the HP Deprivation Index, Mr. Haase, in terms of how the Minister is proceeding in this matter. There is huge concern about the roll-out of this programme.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Byrne for raising this issue. The new identification model is designed to be transparent. Basically, it takes into account the children enrolled in the school and the places where they live and then the HP deprivation index is applied. As the Deputy knows, the variables involved in that index are demographic growth, dependency ratios, education levels, single parent rate, overcrowding, social class, occupation and unemployment rates. This data is applied uniformly to all schools in a fair and objective way to identify the relative level of concentrated disadvantage present in each school.

Full details of the process involved in the assessment of schools are available on my Department's website.  It is also my intention to communicate with all schools to provide information on the identification model.  Information provided will include details of how the datasets are used to determine a school's level of disadvantage; the importance of data quality to the process and the need for detailed and up-to-date information from schools.  

There is no discrepancy in the schools listed for inclusion in DEIS. The only alteration to the lists published involved a change in rural-urban categorisation of four primary schools arising from an improved method of measurement. It is important to note that the urban-rural categorisation of schools relates to geographical location only and has no bearing on the levels of disadvantage identified within those schools.  In the case of the schools in question, there was no impact on the overall resources allocated. 

As the Deputy will be aware, the DEIS programme has been in place since 2005. The publication in February last of the DEIS plan was the outcome of a comprehensive review process undertaken over an 18-month period and represents an updated action plan for future delivery in this critical policy area.

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister stated that the information I am seeking is available on the Department's website. He also said that the schools will be given that information. What I want to know now is how the HP Deprivation Index is applied to schools. In other words, what level of deprivation or areas must children come from for schools to be included in the DEIS programme? Earlier this week, Mr. Haase criticised the application of this index to the DEIS programme and how the programme is being operated. That is very significant criticism. We have heard a lot about this index but the Minister has never explained to schools how it is applied. We all know about formulas. We learned theory in maths class. This is a theory. The Minister has never explained to us or the schools how it is applied to this particular area. There is a huge lack of confidence in this scheme because of the mistakes made. The changes made in this area were made not because of the model being used but because of media inquiries. The Minister purported to put out an approved method thereafter. I put it to the Minister that this scheme was rolled out before it was ready because he was extremely keen to get a good news political announcement out as quickly as possible. It was rushed out, problems have arisen and the details as to why a particular school is included or not in the scheme have never been given.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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When Fianna Fáil was in Government and it was addressing this issue it did not use objective criteria. Its scheme was based on random collection of information. Political information was also brought to bear, which was not satisfactory. The current scheme is transparent. I have just explained to the Deputy how it is put together. In other words, the children in the school and their home addresses are taken in conjunction with the deprivation index, which is used widely, to assess a location. That is the composite index.

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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How many children must there be in a school?

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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It does not matter how many children are in the school, the same rule applies. In terms of the cut-off point, we use the same cut-off point to find the highest level of concentration. I would very liked to have been able to extend that to more schools but the budget I had available had to be used to support the areas with the highest level of concentration. As the Deputy knows, there was no school included since 2009. We have been able to include 79 or 2% of schools in the country because they were at the highest level of concentration of disadvantage. Those are the schools that we are helping.

This was not rushed. It was developed over an 18 month period when the statistical system was developed. The commentator, Mr. Haase, did not criticise the selection method rather he said that we should be looking again at some of the schools. We did not take any school out of DEIS. I do not know whether the Deputy is advocating that we should remove schools who have had DEIS. If that is what he is suggesting, he should state that clearly.

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has alleged that schools were included originally on a random basis or on a political basis. He will either have to put up or shut up. That is an extremely serious allegation to make. The Minister should name the schools included in DEIS that should not be included. If there are schools included in the scheme on a political basis they need to be removed because they do not deserve to be there. That is the logical consequence. Nobody would disagree with that. However, I believe the Minister is only saying that because he has not been able to explain how the current scheme operates and on what basis schools are included. How many children in a school must come from a disadvantaged area in order that that school can qualify for the DEIS programme? Is it one child or all children? We do not know that. I am asking the Minister for that information.

In regard to the Minister's statement that there are schools in the DEIS programme that are wrongly included, I call on him to prove that.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy misunderstands how this index is put together. The whole enrolment in a school is taken into account. We do not designate children as disadvantaged. We take the entire enrolment of the school and we develop a composite index for all of the enrolment in the school based on the areas from which the children come. They are based on objective, scientific criteria, including demographic growth, dependency ratios, the education level of parents, the single parent rate, over-crowding, social class, occupation and unemployment rates. These are objective criteria that are used everywhere.

As the Deputy has acknowledged, this was not done in the past because the system was not objective. Some schools applied and others did not. Some principals were very industrious in collecting data and others were not. All sorts of people were involved in collecting data and making submissions. This will now be done on an objective basis that is independent of all political involvement and defined by criteria. Of course we will need to refine and improve it over time. This is an absolutely fair and objective basis for making selections.