Dáil debates

Thursday, 30 March 2017

11:50 am

Photo of Michael MoynihanMichael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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Yesterday was the day the British Government finally, formally and officially triggered the signing of Brexit some nine months after the referendum in June. By any stretch of the imagination, it was a sad day for Europe and it is very worrying and will have major ramifications for the citizens of this island. It has been described in some of the newspapers this morning as not just a storm for Ireland but an earthquake. While the EU member states will be negotiating the terms of Brexit over the next two years and maybe longer, it is a fact that Ireland will be the country that loses most from this deal.

The British Government seems to be determined to fly the Union Jack more and more while singing "Rule Britannia". At the same time, it is saying it wants the most amicable and lovable divorce in the history of divorces. Citizens across our island, North and South, are genuinely worried about the ramifications of Brexit and how it would seem Ireland has very little influence on the actual outcome. People are worried about the Government not being prepared enough, despite flying around from capital city to capital city, stating our case. However, in the six-page letter yesterday, the importance of not returning to hard borders was mentioned, as was the peace process, which was given priority. The Good Friday Agreement is, after all, an international agreement which has to be upheld. The comments in regard to the common travel area, while welcome, refer to a system in place since the 1920s.

What is really worrying from yesterday is that Chancellor Merkel responded to Prime Minister May by slapping down any parallel talks on trade while the negotiations are ongoing. The UK is traditionally our largest trading partner and we trade €1.2 billion in goods and services every week. Department of Finance officials have already stated that Ireland could face a 30% decline in exports to the UK and a significant rise in unemployment. We all agree the agri-food industry is the most significant industry, employing people right across the country. Exports will be impacted upon, as will trade between North and South. Over 800 million litres of milk are imported from the North annually and we export and import thousands of cattle to the North.

All of these statistics are impacting on consumer confidence as the British are already talking up trade deals between the US, Canada and South American countries. The Minister will come back and say the Government is prepared. How can he say we are prepared, particularly in regard to agri-food industry, when Bord Bia, the agency charged by the State and the Government with selling our industry, has only employed an extra three staff in its Brexit section?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I take the opportunity to express my sympathy on behalf of the Government to the family of the late Captain Mark Duffy, whose funeral is today and in whose memory the flag is flying at half mast. We also hope the other two families who are anxiously waiting will not have to wait long.

I thank Deputy Moynihan for his question. I can assure him the Government has entered into very long preparation for the event that occurred yesterday. This is certainly not of our choosing, I agree with him on that front, but we have done very deep sectoral SWOT analyses and looked at the strengths, weakness, opportunities and threats. The Deputy is right that there are threats to some sectors and opportunities in others. We have revised our trade strategy and job strategy and we have strengthened all of the agencies so they will be in a position to assist companies to diversify, train, adopt lean mechanisms, be more competitive in their markets and trade online. Many changes are being supported by our agencies to ensure companies are in a position to compete.

We have set out our priorities very clearly. Not only that, but we have a very clear track record. The Deputy will recall that, in the last six years, when economic trading conditions in Europe were the most difficult for decades, this Government adopted policies which helped grow employment by 2% per annum. We have 200,000 extra people back at work. That has been an export-led recovery based on stronger competitiveness and more diversification of our markets. We are in a strong position to deal with this decision by the United Kingdom.

We have secured support not just in Theresa May's letter, where very clearly one can see the Government's priorities reflected, but in that Michel Barnier has also indicated frequently his consciousness of Irish concerns. Those concerns have been very clearly set out by Government. We are preparing for the twists and turns of a very difficult negotiation. This is not a straightforward single line of travel. It will be very difficult and there will be issues that we will have to reflect on as they come. However, we have put ourselves in a very strong position, both with regard to our influence with key European partners among the 27, with Michel Barnier and the negotiating team and, indeed, with the British. We are prepared to participate to the full in these discussions and negotiations, which will have a profound impact on our country but which will also offer opportunities as well and we are equally prepared to seize those opportunities.

Photo of Michael MoynihanMichael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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On behalf of my party, I would like to be associated with the expressions of sympathy to the family of Captain Mark Duffy and to all those involved in that horrendous accident.

I do not think the agri-food industry will take much solace from what the Minister has said. There is a huge industry out there and it is very important to note the talk-up by the British Government in regard to supposed trade deals with the US, Canada and South America. We have seen in recent days that the quality of food being produced in some of these countries leaves a lot to be desired. The Irish agricultural industry has built enormously over the past 25 years and goes back centuries. It has prided itself on following the regulations stringently to produce one of the best and safest food industries in the world. Despite Bord Bia being the agency of the State that is charged with marketing our products, it has only four extra key officials in light of Brexit. The Minister said the Government was strengthening the agencies. If that is strengthening the agencies on behalf of the agri-food industry, heaven help us.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The position is that our agricultural sectors are supported not just by Bord Bia but by Enterprise Ireland and by all of the international agencies. Indeed, all of our embassies are now very closely aligned to the export drive that our companies are achieving. We are determined to open up new pathways and, as the Deputy knows, Enterprise Ireland has developed a pathfinder programme which allows agricultural companies in particular to open up new markets where they have not been trading before. That approach has been very successful.

The Deputy is right that the agricultural sector is one of those sectors most exposed because it has traditionally had a very high dependence on the UK market. We have to support our companies to diversify, which we will do, but we also need to secure in these negotiations the protection of the standards which the Deputy rightly says Europe values. I can assure him that not just Ireland but Europe will be determined to protect the high standards of food which are vital to quality for consumers and the workings of our markets. As I have been involved in many trade discussions, I know those will be high priorities not just for Ireland but throughout the European Union and for the negotiators.

12:00 pm

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I too extend our sympathy and solidarity to the family of Captain Mark Duffy and to those other families who still agonisingly await the return of their loved ones.

Yesterday, hundreds of people marched with the workers of Bus Éireann to the Dáil as part of their campaign to protect their livelihood and the public transport network in this State. Six days into their strike action, those workers are furious, frustrated and bewildered. Yesterday, inside the gates, the man who has the responsibility for this dispute to be resolved in a fair way, the Minister, Deputy Ross, was once again telling the Oireachtas transport committee that he will not intervene and will not do his job. He is happy to hide away in his office and sit on his hands while travel chaos unfolds all around communities who depend on the services of Bus Éireann. It is as though he found the entrance into Narnia and only pops back through the wardrobe every now and then to remind us of just how incompetent he is.

It is time for the Minister, Deputy Ross, to grow up. The invisible transport Minister is so hell-bent on pursuing his mission for privatisation that he is clearly oblivious to the fury of the workers and the exasperation of passengers throughout the State. Those workers who have children to feed and rent or mortgages to pay fear losing between 20% and 30% of their incomes. Passengers cannot get to work, to hospital appointments or to visit family members who rely upon their support. The crisis in the public transport network is causing hardship, stress and disarray. That is the fault of this Minister and the Government. The public is boiling with anger and rightly so. It is very important that this anger be directed at the right people and directed at those responsible. Those responsible are the Minister, Deputy Ross, the Government and the management at Bus Éireann.

The workers who stood on Kildare Street yesterday are taking a brave stand against a blatant attack on their livelihoods and against the dismantling of a public service. It is not easy to be on strike. It is not easy for Bus Éireann workers to be on strike, but what choice do they have when faced with a Minister who is absolutely intent on shutting down Bus Éireann as a public service? We now have the ludicrous situation in which the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport - the person responsible for keeping Ireland moving - is willingly presiding over transport grinding to a halt. The Minister, Deputy Ross, is actually sabotaging the transport network and this cannot be allowed. His position of non-intervention and his flimsy excuses cut no ice, neither with the public nor with the workers. I have a simple question. When will the Government demand that the Minister, Deputy Ross, end his disastrous policy of non-intervention? When will the Government finally demand he do his job?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I completely reject the Deputy's position. I think the Minister, Deputy Ross, is doing his job. For example, this year and last year we have seen a 33% increase in the support for public service provision by Bus Éireann.

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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We have no buses.

Photo of John LahartJohn Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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We have traffic congestion.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is negotiating improved input into Bus Éireann services for the social protection-provided services, such as the free travel scheme. The Minister is making very real progress in providing a future for the public transport services provided by Bus Éireann. We know, and it is something that the Deputy and her party refuse to acknowledge, that the difficulties that arise with regard to Bus Éireann have come from the areas of its commercial operations, where it goes directly head to head against private competitors. Under law, it has been provided that that must be a level playing pitch. It is not open to the Minister, Deputy Ross, or indeed any other Minister to provide subvention to services in which there is a commercially open competition between both sides.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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Who started it?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Clearly, the National Transport Authority has indicated that should the restructuring require the withdrawal of certain services, it would be in a position to examine those and provide for substitute services where they are appropriate. The truth is that every time there is an industrial dispute, the Deputy and her party come in to the House and demand that Ministers come along and solve it. We and every party have seen the benefit of an approach to industrial relations in which we have professional people in the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC. If the Deputy seeks to elevate and politicise every dispute and looks for Ministers to come in with chequebooks to try to resolve them, we will never have a proper system of industrial relations.

Photo of John LahartJohn Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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He does not want to resolve it.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Management and unions have to address the issues that are here. It is very regrettable that this has flared into a dispute that is causing so much hardship, but it is not to the Minister that one looks for a solution. This has to be resolved through the negotiation supports that are available through the WRC and the Labour Court. They are long-experienced and seasoned. I am certainly not going to support attempts to undermine those tried and tested approaches in industrial relations.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It seems the Minister is almost as deluded as his colleague, the Minister, Deputy Ross. To describe the current fiasco as "very real progress" is really extreme even by the standards of his Government. Of course, the Minister, Deputy Ross, has previous form in looking the other way and sitting out his responsibilities. We saw how he did that with the Dublin Bus dispute last autumn. I invite the Minister, Deputy Bruton, to come out of his little bubble - perhaps even his Dublin bubble - and cast his eye beyond to understand that quite aside from the intercity services, which are now buckled, cities outside of Dublin have come to a virtual standstill. It is hurting businesses, families and communities and the Government does not seem to care. It seems to think it is a tenable position for a Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to opt out of resolving a massive transport dispute.

This is not simply an ordinary industrial relations dispute. This goes much deeper than that. This is actually a public policy crisis. The workers, the unions, the management and the Government know that. Yet, the Government seems prepared, in the case of the Minister, Deputy Ross, to sit it out and, in the case of the Minister, Deputy Bruton, to brazen it out. That is not good enough. At what point does the Minister, Deputy Ross, come off the benches, get onto the pitch and play his correct role?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The truth is that the approach of the Deputy and her party to industrial relations in the public service would lead to more industrial strife and result in more strikes, with taxpayers having to fund every strike and every claim.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Really?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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That is not a realistic approach. We have just been talking about Brexit and the challenges that poses for the competitiveness of the Irish economy, both in the public service and the private sector. We have to ensure that we can have companies that run their business commercially. There are identified efficiencies that are recognised on both sides. These issues have to be addressed in an industrial relations forum. We have provided that forum. That has to be the approach that is adopted. If we adopted the Deputy's approach, we would have more and more industrial strife-----

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Under the Government's approach, we have industrial chaos.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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-----and the Deputy would be the cheerleader for that industrial strife.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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It is the Government's privatisation that is doing it, and Fianna Fáil's before it.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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My party and I would like to be associated with the votes of sympathy to the family of the late Captain Mark Duffy and wish well the recovery efforts still under way for the remaining two missing members of Rescue 116.

I met in Brussels yesterday with colleagues from across Europe to develop proposals to amend the fiscal rules that are constraining investment, investment that is certainly required now but will be much more urgently required into the future. This week, my party published a Brexit policy paper containing 20 specific concrete actions aimed at protecting the Irish economy in the face of the real challenges that are now on their way. Changing the fiscal rules is one of them. Also this week, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and IBEC have called for specific policy actions. Over recent weeks, every party has been talking about Brexit, but in terms of publishing tangible actions, only my own party has now put that on the table.

Ireland faces its greatest challenge since the Emergency. What is required now are not the generalisms that I already heard this morning from the Minister but concrete actions that will be taken. We have put out sensible policy proposals that will make a difference. We are calling for increased investment in a targeted programme to support companies in sectors like agrifoods, which were mentioned already. Among the 20 proposals are a €250 million Brexit trade adjustment fund, the suspension of state aid rules for two years after the UK leaves the EU, an early warning system that encompasses business, trade unions and other stakeholders and a new regional action plan in the Minister's old area of jobs to take the new reality of Brexit on board.

Since last year I have raised the issue of the European globalisation adjustment fund a number of times and we still have no progress on that. We have already seen industries such as the mushroom industry devastated, and the beef and milk sectors will not be far behind if we do not have specific proposals for them. What contingency plans are in place, particularly for a hard Border and dealing with customs checks at our ports and our airports? Is the Government preparing to strengthen our transport links, especially our links to mainland Europe, and invest in our ports, and are there specific strategies to deal with these matters? We are calling for specific recognition of the unique challenges faced by Ireland in the negotiating mandate from the European Council to be provided by the European Commission, with the team to be lead by Michel Barnier. Specifically, does the Government support special status for Northern Ireland, which is a matter which has already been voted upon by this House? Can we now hear a concrete line of specific actions? The game has now become real. The actions need to be spelled out in real terms. We do not need more generalisations, but rather specific proposals to make a difference for our people.

12:10 pm

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his question. There is no doubt that Northern Ireland the specific problems that will arise there have been at the centre of the strategy the Government has been developing. It has been one of the planks of the four priorities the Government has set, and it revolves around making sure that we do not have a return to a hard Border. It revolves around supporting continued North-South co-operation and protecting the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement. All of those have been detailed to a considerable degree, and we have had an all-Ireland civic forum to ensure all points of view are provided for. We have very specific provisions also in terms of a job strategy, with Enterprise Ireland and IDA provisions. We have a capital plan which is being reviewed by the Minister, and it will be very conscious of the infrastructure requirements that will arise from Brexit. We have revised our trade strategy very specifically to look at diversification to the markets where we have the opportunity to grow, anticipating that it will not be so easy in the UK market and that we cannot be so reliant upon it.

I applaud Deputy Howlin's efforts to look afresh at the European Union. I share his view that we need to make sure that the Union, in the future, has a far greater focus on the needs of citizens and delivering for citizens against a backdrop where we have seen a number of faultlines exposed within the structures of the EU in recent years. It is a sad situation that Europe has lost much of the commitment of ordinary people because it has been mired in trying to resolve its issues. It is very important that we start to look to the future. That debate is starting within the EU. The paper recently issued by the Commission is a first start. Perhaps it is not bold enough for any of us, but it begins to open up that debate. There will be a big obligation not just to negotiate the exit of Britain, but beginning later this year, to shape the new Europe that we want to see. I welcome Deputy Howlin's contribution to that debate, and all of the House should be party to it.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Specific proposals have not been made. Making a declaration that there will be no return to a hard Border is not a policy proposal. It is a meaningless declaration. At a minimum, we have said a new Irish protocol to the EU treaty will be required to recognise the common travel area, the Good Friday Agreement and the unique situation that will pertain on the island of Ireland. Is that a Government priority? The Taoiseach has told me previously that the Government will be drafting the Council response to the triggering of Article 50. With regard to the Government's support for a change in the Stability and Growth Pact, which I have been arguing for within my own political family, will the Government argue for its EPP family also to support a change to allow for vital investment?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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We have always advocated for a growth policy within the European Union, and we have been strong advocates of that within the EPP. There has been some reflection of that - perhaps not enough - and we need to continue to focus on how we grow a competitive EU and how do we avoid a swing to protectionism, which is a risk within the EU and is something we need to protect against strongly. We have to work together for that, because Ireland has a huge interest in open, competitive borders and not in the closed and restricted borders that some would advocate.

I sympathise with the Deputy asking that I say, "Here is the outcome of two years of negotiations between Ireland and the European Union, and here in detail is how it protects Ireland." That is just not possible. We enter into a negotiating process, we have prepared very carefully and positioned ourselves very well, and we have the support of not only Britain in terms of the priorities we have set, especially in respect of Northern Ireland, but also of many colleagues in the EU. We will see in the coming days that that will be a major consideration early on in those negotiations, and we have positioned ourselves to be successful in the outcome. However, I cannot stand up here and name protections one to ten and detail exactly how each of those issues will be dealt with. That is not the nature of this sort of negotiation, and that is why we have had to put in this degree of preparation. We have to prepare for the unexpected as well as the favoured outcomes.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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On behalf of the Green Party I extend our sympathies to the family of Captain Duffy on their tragic loss and commend him on his heroism in the work that he and the other members of the Coast Guard have done.

It was interesting watching the Garda Commissioner in the Oireachtas committee this morning, and I have a number of questions for the Minister on the Government's position. This mess must be cleaned up. Has the Government considered, or will it consider, legislative changes to deal with those wrongful 14,700 convictions? Rather than have to go to court on an individual case-by-case basis which would clog up our courts and be hugely expensive and difficult for the litigants involved, could we not introduce a legislative amendment where all 14,700 would be scheduled and listed as an amendment to the legislation? This would allow for them to be quashed in a single legislative move, which would then allow us to move on to fix the redress which might arise in any particular cases. Has the Government considered such a legislative provision in its Cabinet meeting this week so that we at least deal with those cases in a timely, quick, cheap and efficient manner?

A key question I have concerns the Government's decision that the way to respond to this is another inquiry into the future of the Garda. What is the purpose of such an inquiry when we have the likes of the Olson report, completed in November 2015, entitled Changing Irish Policing, which to my reading gives a very clear analysis of the difficulties we have and gives very clear direction on what needs to be done? Why are we commissioning yet more studies into what might be done when we have, it seems to me, a perfectly well-written, incisive, articulate and clear report that could very quickly provide us with a range of actionable items? It is particularly shocking that Deputy Commissioner Twomey, in the last meeting of the Policing Authority, said that one of the main recommendations in terms of employing staff in Castlebar on the data communications system has not yet been put in place. It was also shocking to hear the Commissioner say this morning that she has only now got the team she needs in place in terms of additional assistant commissioners. What is it in the public administrative system that is restricting us from being able to be flexible and fast in terms of moving people around and putting people in the right positions? Especially in this case the public system seems unable to provide this flexibility. I do not know whether it is a Garda problem or whether it applies to other areas of the public service. Why is it still taking us a year or two to get there? What both Deputy Commissioner Twomey and Commissioner O'Sullivan said is that they could not do it because they did not have authorisation to employ the necessary people. Why is our public administrative system so slow to put the people in the right place?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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It is true to say that there is a lot of executive action changing things. I know, for example, that the divisional structure, which was criticised by the inspectorate, is being changed. I know that there is a new ICT plan being put into the Garda.

There is a restructuring of the traffic section, as the Deputy knows. There is a whole range of things that are being implemented. The difficulty we have is that we are on a painful journey of reform and what we have seen in the last few days demonstrates that some of the cultural issues within An Garda Síochána have not been resolved by the programme of reform. I took note of the Garda Inspectorate's reports and agree there is a huge amount of recommendations therein to be implemented. We now have a Policing Authority, just one year in position, which is taking on a stronger role. We are on a journey of reform but there is no doubt that what we have seen today has shaken peoples' confidence in the way the system is working.

The Deputy has asked what a new review could do but this will not be a review like those of the past, where we looked specifically at whistleblowers, at one district or one segment of Garda operations. This will look at root and branch issues. For example, should we separate security from policing, so that we could have a different approach to policing and different forms of accountability? That has been discussed in the past. Those issues are now on the table. We recognise that cultural change within An Garda Síochána will need more than just the approach that has been adopted to date. That is not to say that many of the proposals in the Garda Inspectorate's reports and the proposals from the Policing Authority are not on the right track. However, when we turn up stones and find the scale of what happened on this occasion, we cannot just turn around and say it is business as usual and this will work. This has exposed real problems and the Government feels that we must address them in a different way. We must look at more serious structural issues as well as the ones that are already being addressed. That is why we are open to discussing, not just within Government but with other interested parties, the way in which we should structure this. It will not protect us from other issues being found out but we must have confidence that we have a structure that will deal with those issues as they arise.

12:20 pm

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I agree that we need to look at the cultural background in An Garda Síochána that allowed this to take place. We should also look at the bigger, wider structural issues in terms of what An Garda Síochána is and should be doing. However, we also have a structural problem in our Government and public administration system. When senior members of An Garda Síochána are asked questions in public fora, such as at today's meeting of the Joint Committee on Justice and Equality and the last meeting of the Policing Authority, as to why the clear recommendations - that we spent a lot of time formulating - on the immediate employment of the right people to start addressing problems have not been implemented, the answer we get is that they could not do that because they were not authorised to put the staff in place. We got rid of the employment control framework four years ago, which was a deeply damaging piece of administrative structuring. Why is it then that we still seem to have an inability to be flexible and to allow agencies to employ people quickly? We saw that it in here when the Select Committee on Budgetary Oversight could not get somebody for six months. What is the Minister's experience of this, as a line Minister? Is there a problem with agencies of the State being able to get swift authorisation to employ the right people?

I also ask the Minister to answer my first question, namely, does he agree that we should have a legislative amendment to enable the courts to run through all of the 14,700 wrongful convictions in one fell swoop?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I just do not accept that staff and resources are behind the sort of problems that we are seeing in An Garda Síochána. They are not behind the issues that we have put out to a tribunal or behind the issue of the falsifying of reporting that we have seen. Those issues cannot be explained by staffing and resources. Of course, staffing and resources will help in the context of implementing reform but we have had reform even with diminishing resources. Deputy Howlin will attest to the fact that even in times of diminishing resources, we must have reform. I do not accept that argument at all.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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That is their argument.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I do not accept that argument. The Garda Inspectorate made 81 recommendations and we need to see those implemented. They will take time but we need to do this root and branch investigation.

On the issue of the wrongful convictions and a single Act, as I understand it, 96% of those cases involved other issues as well. It is not a single, uniform batch that we can just change at the stroke of a pen. Many of these cases involved multiple charges on the charge sheet, as well as the one that arose in this case, where the fixed charge notice had not been sent out. I am not sure it is as simple as the Deputy describes but I know that An Garda Síochána and the Director of Public Prosecutions are looking at possible solutions. If there is a legislative element to that, I am sure the Government will consider it.