Dáil debates

Thursday, 30 March 2017

4:25 pm

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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10. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the current status of Judge McCartan's review of the Stardust Relatives and Victims Committee's evidence; when this review is expected to be completed; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [15531/17]

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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In January I put a motion to the House to establish immediately a commission of investigation into the Stardust tragedy of 1981. The Minister and the Government opposed that and, now, we are to have this second look-back. I understand my distinguished predecessor as a Deputy for Dublin North-East, and distinguished former member of the Judiciary, Judge McCartan, is the independent person who has been selected. We also hear reports in the media that his look-back is to take 90 days and will cost €140,000. What is its current status?

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Judge McCartan began his work on Monday, 27 March, and it is hoped that he can conclude his assessment process within the 90-day period. The Government agreed on 7 March to appoint Judge McCartan to assess any new and updated evidence uncovered by the Stardust Relatives and Victims Committee in order to recommend whether there should another commission of investigation into the Stardust tragedy of 1981. That will be conducted completely independently of Government. I want to thank Judge McCartan for being willing to do this.

The scope of the assessment process is outlined in the Dáil motion of 26 January, so the Deputy will be well aware of it. Judge McCartan will be assisted by a junior counsel. In addition, the Stardust Relatives and Victims Committee may obtain sanction from Judge McCartan to avail of appropriate representation, if necessary, in order to present its evidence to him. To facilitate the assessment process, office accommodation and meeting facilities have been obtained by the Department of Justice and Equality at Haddington Road, Dublin. An e-mail address has been provided to Judge McCartan and forwarded to the Stardust Relatives and Victims Committee for the purposes of facilitating contact between Judge McCartan and the committee.

Judge McCartan will have discretion to afford the committee whatever representation he believes is necessary in order for the committee to present its evidence to the assessment process. The relevant daily rates payable will be set by my Department and costs will be borne by the Exchequer. The requirement for representation will, most likely, be dependent on the nature of the evidence to be presented to Judge McCartan.

As I said, Judge McCartan began his work on Monday, 27 March. In parallel with the assessment process, my Department has met with the committee and its advisers on a number of occasions regarding historical fees that the committee claims are owed to it. The committee believes the Exchequer should be liable for payment of those fees and has threatened to refuse to engage with the proposed McCartan process if the historical fees issue is not resolved. I hope discussions will be ongoing on this issue and it is my Department’s intention that these discussions remain separate from the proposed McCartan process.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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There is a huge body of evidence dating back to the mid-1980s. The Keane report, with which the people of the area I represent were very unhappy, was followed by books, including the famous one, They Never Came Home, by Tony McCullagh and Neil Fetherston, the "RTE Investigates" programme by Ms Rita O'Reilly, the work of the committee and the Coffey report, which it is fair to say demolished the Keane report. Will Judge McCartan be reviewing the impact of all of that evidence?

People constantly contact members of the committee and those like myself in regard to new evidence. While the Minister mentioned an e-mail address, will there be a website and contact details so people could telephone to say, for example, that they knew where the storeroom was or that they felt there was something wrong with the electrics? Will there be a process whereby those people can engage with Judge McCartan?

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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We have set up this part of the work very much based on what was discussed in the context of the Dáil motion. What is important now is that Judge McCartan has offices, support and an e-mail address. I have made it very clear about the evidence the committee may have, the fact it can get representation and that we would hope to deal with the historical issue. Judge McCartan will now address the issues the Deputy has raised and I have no doubt he will be making public the precise scope and making it clear whether there is an opportunity for people other than committee members to present evidence. He will, no doubt, address those issues and make that information publicly available.

At the Department's most recent meeting with the committee in the context of the historical fees issue, on 15 March, the Department indicated there may be scope to make provision for some payment based on the differential between the amount sought following the Coffey process and the amount that was paid out at that time. However, the Department has emphasised that, as I am sure the Deputy will understand, a case has to be made before State money could be paid out.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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Is there ongoing liaison between the Department and the victims and relatives committee? What has been the outcome of recent meetings that took place between the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, and members of the committee? In a general sense, there is a feeling that the wider Coolock area, the hundreds of families who are affected and all of their relatives affected down through the decades need justice and closure. I thought the best way to do that was to have an immediate commission of investigation. The Minister said Judge McCartan will look at all relevant information and will encourage the public to come forward. For a long time, there has been a Facebook page, Justice for the Stardust 48, operated by Ms Antoinette Keegan and her committee, where people are encouraged to bring forward information. Will this be a scoping exercise which will include the widest possible encouragement of people who, more than 30 years after attending a function there, can ring me up and say they have important new information?

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Let us be very clear. The Government agreed to appoint Judge McCartan to assess new and updated evidence uncovered by the Stardust Relatives and Victims Committee in order to recommend whether there should be a commission of investigation into the Stardust tragedy of 1981.

It will be done completely independently of Government. Obviously, the work that was done in the Dáil and the terms of reference will guide that work. With regard to the discussions with the committee, the most recent meeting was on 15 March. I have already told the Deputy what the Department indicated at that meeting about the possibility of engagement and provision of some payment based on the differential between the amount sought following the Coffey process and the amount paid. The committee decided at that time to leave that meeting. However, my Department is committed to continuing its engagement with the committee on its claim regarding the historical moneys owed.