Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his views on the Government's response to the application being taken to the European Committee of Social Rights by EUROMIL on behalf of PDFORRA seeking enhanced employee and representative rights for the Defence Forces akin to that won by the Garda organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15538/17]

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I thank Deputy Lisa Chambers for allowing me to leapfrog with the taking of my Question No. 3 before her Question No. 4.

An application is being taken to the European Committee of Social Rights by EUROMIL on behalf of PDFORRA seeking enhanced employee and representative rights for the Defence Forces akin to those won by the Garda organisations. Will the Minister of State indicate his views and make a statement on the matter?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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In a non-binding ruling, the European Committee on Social Rights, ECSR, found in 2014 that current arrangements for industrial relations in An Garda Síochána are not in compliance with aspects of the European Social Charter. This was on the grounds of a prohibition on An Garda Síochána joining national employee organisations and on representative associations levels of access to national pay agreement discussions. Also, as part of this non-binding judgment, I am advised that the committee also found against the prohibition of the right of members of An Garda Síochána to strike.

Before I proceed further, the Deputy will appreciate that the implications of these non-binding findings are matter for the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality in the first instance.

In the light of these ECSR findings, a complaint to the Council of Europe about the lack of union rights for military representative associations in Ireland wasmade by EUROMIL, a European umbrella body for military associations, on behalf of PDFORRA. PDFORRA is similarly claiming most of the same violations of the European Social Charter as the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, did, including denial of the right to join the ICTU, alleged restricted access to pay talks, and the prohibition on the right to strike.

I stress that this is a particularly difficult issue and raises complex questions for Ireland from a legal, operational and management perspective. In this context it is critically important that the Defence Forces are fully operational at all times, and it must be emphasised that the taking of any form of industrial action is irreconcilable with military service.

Detailed final submissions were lodged to the European Committee on Social Rights on 26 February 2016 setting out Ireland's position in the matter and we are now awaiting the outcome of the case. I am not in a position to comment any further pending the outcome of this case.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Does the Minister appreciate that a head of steam is building up in the ranks of the armed forces and their families over a litany of grievances that I have raised with him both in oral and written questions during the past few months? It is not just a question of grievances, of which there are many, on the issues of pay, pension rights, the theft by this State of annual leave entitlement and health and safety issues, the likes of which we saw in the Air Corps paint shop. It also is about the severe curbs that are being placed on members of the armed forces and their organisation, PDFORRA, in representing its members in the manner of a real trade union. The Garda Representative Association, GRA, and the AGSI were successful in taking a case to the European Committee of Social Rights in the teeth of opposition from the Minister of State's colleagues in the Department of Justice and Equality. That his Department is contesting the case being taken by EUROMIL forcing the armed forces to go through all the same hoops as the Garda organisations did, stringing the process out by years, is shameful. It will not be accepted. Does the Minister accept that a heap of steam is building up on these issues and that the current position is untenable?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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No. I do not accept the Deputy's assertions. We have a mechanism of the conciliation and arbitration process within the Department and the Defence Forces that is open to both the representative organisations, PDFORRA and RACO, that represent members of the Army, Naval Service and the Air Corps. If they are unhappy with that, they can go to the ombudsman for adjudication.

A process is therefore in place within the Defence Forces. I am not going to say that everything in the garden is rosy or that neither representative organisation brings issues to my attention. Of course they do. However, this is a matter of ironing out the issues both organisations have, and I have met the organisations on numerous occasions. If there are any major issues concerning the members of the organisation, both RACO and PDFORRA can bring them to the attention of the Department of Defence and senior management of the Defence Forces. I am satisfied that the process we have is able to deal with this.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I agree with the Minister of State on one point: things in the garden are not rosy - not by a long shot. Before Christmas, I tabled a parliamentary question which took his Department until the middle of February to answer. It concerned the number of days' leave entitlement surrendered by members of the armed forces because those on tours of duty could not carry over untaken leave. A massive 37,610 days' leave was untaken, which by the calculations of PDFORRA is the equivalent of €2.9 million in pay being taken from these workers by the Minister of State's Department. I await his Department to come back to me with figures for other years. This is just one example of the shoddy manner in which our armed forces are being treated by his Department. I have met representatives of the new spouses' and partners' campaign. I assure the Minister of State that they mean business and I think he will be hearing from them more in the weeks and months ahead.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I have no problem hearing the issues of any representative organisation. I have met the management of both PDFORRA and RACO to hear their concerns and views and any issues they have within the Defence Forces. I put my hands up and said we will not be able to sort out every issue affecting the representative organisations but we can go some way in trying to address the issues they might bring to my attention.

The case in respect of which the Deputy tabled his parliamentary question is now up for hearing so I will not comment further on it. The final submissions setting out Ireland's position on the matter were lodged with the European Committee of Social Rights on 26 February 2016, so we await the outcome of the case.