Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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23. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if she has given further consideration to concerns raised regarding the proposed single affordable childcare scheme that some of the poorest families will have less access for their children to after-school provision including homework clubs and social activities; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [15135/17]

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I acknowledge that other members of the committee have raised this issue, Deputy Ó Laoghaire in particular. It is to do with the fact that the new single affordable childcare scheme will offer less support for unemployed families than for families where the parents are at work. I know the intention is to support people going out to work and so on but it will disadvantage some of the poorest children in the country. We engaged with the Minister on this issue in the committee. Is further consideration being given to the concern, particularly of the community child care sector?

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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The affordable childcare scheme will give priority to the poorest families. The highest rates of subsidy will go to families with the lowest incomes. In particular, the maximum rate of subsidy will go to families with net income below €22,700, which means that all families below the relative income poverty line will receive the maximum hourly rate of subsidy. For school-age children, the maximum subsidy will be €3.76 per hour, which amounts to €38 per week for a two-hour per day after-school session.

I want to ensure a balanced approach to eligibility: while people will qualify for a subsidy based purely on income, parents’ participation in work or training will determine the number of hours of subsidy available. When parents are engaged in work, including part-time work and labour market activation programmes, or in education or training they will be eligible for an enhanced hours subsidy of up to 40 hours per week. When parents are not in work or training, child care will be subsidised on a standard hours basis of up to 15 hours per week.

I believe that this is a reasonable approach. It will mean that this scheme is open, albeit for standard hours rather than enhanced hours, to parents who stay at home to care for their children and are not taking part in work or training but who choose to avail of up to 15 hours of child care per week. In the case of school-going children, the child development objectives are met through school-going hours and, as such, the 15 standard hours child care applies to non-term time.

I acknowledge that where a parent is at home and not engaged in work or study, the family will not benefit from subsidised after-school child care. However, I believe it is important that the scheme should actively support labour market participation through linking the number of hours of subsidy to a family’s need for child care for the purpose of work, education or training.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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The concern that has been expressed to me in an e-mail is that, in effect, this means that children of unemployed parents will not be able to attend after-school and avail of the homework help, development of social skills and learning provided, apart from the 15 hours during non-term time. This is a genuine concern, particularly of the community sector. I acknowledge that labour market participation is one of the objectives of the scheme but the main objective is child-centred and child-focused. I do not know if the Minister has met the people who are directly concerned about this issue but there is a genuine fear that in some cases community child care services would not be able to afford to continue. An additional concern, apart from the concern around the children themselves, is that some of these services will not be viable under the new scheme. The legislation has not been passed yet so I do not know if there is an opportunity to consider the effects of this particular element of it but the Minister might do that.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Ó Laoghaire has a question that is combined with Deputy Jan O'Sullivan's question.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister. I support the Deputy asking the question and want to place on record again that it is an issue of concern, particularly in that it interacts with the change in regulations, which we have discussed already. The community services particularly affected are those providing services to children aged up to three years because of the much-reduced ratio they are dealing with in the absence of community employment, CE, workers. The change in the subsidy means that this aspect of the community sector is at particular risk, and I have spoken to the Minister previously about a number of services in both the north side and south side of my own city, but we should perhaps consider an enhanced capitation of some form for community settings in disadvantaged areas.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I thank both Deputies who are highlighting a number of interrelated issues. On the initial question, I referred in my answer to people who are working, in part-time work or in training versus being unemployed, and we might continue this discussion. It is about labour market activation but also encouraging people to move into forms of training and if parents are able to do that, those subsidies will be available to them. It is only right that we encourage that, although I am not saying that we would not necessarily look at that again. I understand the point about the unemployed but incentivisation in terms of training is really important. I know it couples with all of the other issues, some of which I have already addressed.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Does Deputy Jan O'Sullivan have a final supplementary?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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Sometimes women who are at home do not have access to training because they are not on the live register. That is something which must be considered as well. Ultimately, my concern is that we would not make some good community schemes unviable into the future.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I agree with that. It would also be my concern. As part of this debate and if we look at it in the context of the committee, we need to look at access to training and requirements in that regard and whether they have changed enough so that people can have that access because, of course, it would not be something I would wish for, as the Deputy appreciates. At the same time, we have already said that in respect of lone parents who may be in training or education and have access to a certain level of subsidy, it will be no less as we move toward in terms of the transition to the new child care scheme to enable them to complete that training. I have met many of the people in these services and I understand pretty well what are the issues. My Department is committed to working with these services one by one.