Dáil debates

Wednesday, 22 March 2017

1:15 pm

Photo of Imelda MunsterImelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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20. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport his views on his Department's policy regarding slip road tolls on the outskirts of towns, in view of the detrimental effect they have on investment, local economies and tourism in towns; his plans to review slip road tolls or if he will consider same; if he will consider reviewing current contracts, especially in Drogheda in view of its position as a Border town as Britain prepares to leave the EU; if he met Transport Infrastructure Ireland on the matter as he had indicated in Dáil Éireann on 19 July 2016; the details of the outcome of raising this issue at that meeting; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14442/17]

Photo of Imelda MunsterImelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I want to know the Minister's views on his Department's policy regarding slip road tolls on the outskirts of towns, in view of the detrimental effect they have on investment, tourism and the local economy. I want to know if he plans to review slip road tolls or if he will consider same, if he will consider reviewing the current contracts, especially in Drogheda in view of its position as a Border town as Britain prepares to leave the EU, if he met Transport Infrastructure Ireland, as he committed to do in July 2016, the details of the outcome of him raising this issue at that meeting and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank Deputy Munster for this question which is on the same lines as questions the Deputy has been following up over a period of time.

​As Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, I have responsibility for overall policy and funding in regard to the national roads programme. The planning, design and operation of individual roads is a matter for Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, under the Roads Acts 1993 to 2015 in conjunction with the local authorities concerned. Furthermore, the statutory power to levy tolls on national roads, to make toll by-laws and to enter into agreements relating to tolls on national roads is vested in TII. The planning and construction of the M1, associated slip roads and contractual arrangements relating to tolls are, therefore, matters for TII.

I undertook, in response to the Deputy's question on 19 July 2016, to raise the issue at a meeting with TII. This took place in early August 2016. TII subsequently briefed my Department on the 2002 toll scheme and the findings of a 2012 study of the implications of the removal of the tolls at the north-facing slip roads at M1 Junction 9. Details of TII's briefing were forwarded to the Deputy in October 2016. I understand that TII has also outlined the conclusions of the 2012 study to the Deputy in response to recent questions.

In the 2012 study, two scenarios were considered. The first scenario involved removing ramp tolls only while the second scenario involved removing ramp tolls and increasing the mainline toll. The study concluded that significant levels of additional traffic would divert to local routes such as the R152 through Duleek and the R132 through Julianstown with thousands more vehicles per day affecting the safety, quality of life and commercial viability of these communities.

In addition, both scenarios would have substantial financial implications because TII would be contractually required to compensate the PPP company for losses arising out of any change. Under the first scenario, it was estimated that between €6 million and €7 million would have to be paid to the PPP company in the first year, increasing each year to 2034.  Under the second scenario, given the higher rates of diversion off the M1, it was estimated that mainline tolls would have to be increased by between 40% and 60%.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

It is important to point out that the aim of the Donore ramp toll plazas was to mitigate possible "rat-running" with adverse impacts on local communities.  In response to concerns expressed about the possible impact on business in Drogheda, the approved toll scheme allows vehicles to exit the motorway, having paid a toll, and re-enter within three hours, with no further charge.  At the same time, I note that removing congestion and heavy traffic often has a beneficial effect on investment, local economies and tourism in towns.

1:25 pm

Photo of Imelda MunsterImelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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As I said to the Minister before, the slip road tolls are, in effect, a tax on people living, working, shopping and visiting Drogheda. It is the only town in Ireland with a toll. It is a tax on entering and exiting the town. I cannot emphasise enough the adverse effects on local businesses, investment, tourism and day-to-day life for people living in Drogheda and the surrounding areas and I do not think the Minister is getting it. One has to pay a toll to get from one side of the town to the other and from one retail park to another. If one is dropping children to primary and secondary school, one has to go through the toll. To say it has added to the serious congestion is an understatement. It has ground traffic in Drogheda to a halt. Why would any investor comparing Drogheda to other towns seek to invest there knowing one has to pay a toll to get from one side of it to the other? The Minister has given a commitment to a meeting but did he just accept TII's response, the makey-up figures it gave him on the cost of removing the slip road tolls and the excuses as to why they should remain in place? Is he going to request TII to find a way to remove the tolls? He is the Minister in charge and the TII comes under the Roads Acts.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I understand the reasons Deputy Munster is saying this - it is her constituency and her constituents obviously feel this is unfair to them. I do not accept that the figures are made up. I accept the fact that they may be subjective and not entirely and totally accurate in circumstances where one cannot measure it down to the last lorry or car, but the Deputy must accept that a contract has been made by the TII with the PPP which is binding until 2034, which is a long time. If the contract is breached by the removal of the tolls on the slip roads, compensation will obviously have to be made. The TII says it is between €6 million and €7 million to give a range, but it is obvious that it is a very substantial amount of money. I am not nor should I be in the business of going in to direct the TII on how to manage an individual toll on an individual road. It would be absurd if a Minister were to do that. As the Deputy knows, if lorries pay the toll and do not stay more than three hours, they get the toll money back.

Photo of Imelda MunsterImelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am blue in the face from outlining to the Minister the adverse effects the toll is having on the town of Drogheda. In the response I received from TII, it said it had commissioned a bespoke, made-to-order set of origin-to-destination surveys in Drogheda to project the cost of the impact of removing the slip road tolls in the town. This was one methodology and calculation on one slip road purely for Drogheda and it was not applied anywhere else in the world. To say that is a basis for TII's argument is incredible. It is ridiculous and it is invented. Coming up with figures which have never been used anywhere else means it is impossible to compare them against anything else. The Minister cannot justify those figures or the excuse and neither can the TII. Given that this was a purposely commissioned study solely for Drogheda and never calculated against anything anywhere across the world, there is no basis to it whatsoever. As I said at the start, it is an excuse. Is the Minister going to go along with it? The TII cannot justify it, the Minister cannot justify it and it would not stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever. A figure was pulled out of the air and is being used to justify this. Is the Minister going to stand over it given the adverse effects on Drogheda, its people and the surrounding areas?

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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If the Deputy wishes to say the TII's figures are wrong, I would like her to produce evidence to the contrary. I would like her to produce conflicting figures.

Photo of Imelda MunsterImelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I have asked-----

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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The Deputy said they are wrong, makey-up figures. She may be right but there is no evidence for it whatsoever. I assume TII, which is employed to do this sort of work, has an expertise in tolling and counting the number of cars and lorries that go through. The Deputy has produced no evidence whatsoever that it is incorrect.

Photo of Imelda MunsterImelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I requested evidence.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister without interruption.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I am not going to interfere with a single toll in a single place because that is not my role as Minister. It is the TII's role. I understand the reasons the Deputy raises the matter, but I note that the aim of the Donore ramp toll plazas was to help the local communities by mitigating possible rat-running with adverse impacts on them. In response to concerns expressed about the possible impact on business in Drogheda, the approved toll scheme allows vehicles to exit the motorway having paid a toll and to re-enter within three hours with no further charge. At the same time, I note that removing congestion and heavy traffic often has a beneficial effect on investment, local economies and tourism in towns like Drogheda.