Dáil debates

Tuesday, 21 March 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions

Northern Ireland

4:25 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with Prime Minister May on 9 March 2017 and the issues that were discussed. [13174/17]

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his conversation and discussions with Prime Minister May following the Northern Ireland Assembly elections. [13187/17]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the British Prime Minister, Ms Theresa May, on 9 March 2017. [13682/17]

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with Theresa May at the EU summit held on 9 March 2017. [13923/17]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach the discussions he has had with Michelle O'Neill MLA and Arlene Foster MLA since the Northern Ireland Assembly elections. [13988/17]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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11. To ask the Taoiseach the discussions he has had with Prime Minister, Theresa May, regarding any revisions in the timeline for the invoking of Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty by the United Kingdom Government. [13989/17]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 11, inclusive, together.

I met with Prime Minister, Theresa May, on the margins of the European Council meeting in Brussels on Thursday, 9 March. We discussed the Northern Ireland Assembly election results and the implications that Brexit will have for the North and for relationships across these islands. We reiterated our joint and continuing commitment to the Good Friday Agreement and its institutions and our shared desire to see a fully functioning Executive back in place within the required three-week period.

The absence of political leadership in Northern Ireland is regrettable at this particularly critical time and in that regard, we welcomed the engagement by the political parties in Northern Ireland with Secretary of State Brokenshire and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, and hoped that these channels of communication would remain open. I emphasised to the Prime Minister the importance of finding a way forward on outstanding commitments and, in particular, on issues like the legacy institutions under the Stormont House Agreement, and the Irish language.

The Prime Minister confirmed she would trigger Article 50 before the end of the month. We now know the date of that. We discussed the enormous challenges that Brexit presents for Northern Ireland and the peace process. We are agreed on the importance of our two Governments working together to ensure that the framework of the Good Friday Agreement and successor agreements is fully preserved in the upcoming Brexit negotiations and outcomes. We both reaffirmed our commitment to maintaining the common travel area and the need to find a solution that would preserve the common travel area and also maintain a seamless Border on the island of Ireland.

Following the outcome of the Northern Ireland Assembly elections, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Flanagan, spoke with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and a number of the main party leaders in Northern Ireland. The Minister and Secretary of State Brokenshire have been engaged in talks with party leaders to encourage them to play their part in creating the conditions that allow for the formation of a new power-sharing Assembly and Executive.

The heart of the Good Friday Agreement is its interlocking political institutions. However, they can only be sustained on the basis of partnership, equality and mutual respect.  As a co-guarantor, the Irish Government is determined to uphold the principles of the Agreement and to protect its institutions. In the coming weeks, we will work with all concerned to see the power-sharing Assembly and Executive restored to effective and harmonious operation.

4:35 pm

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his response. Dealing with the Assembly elections and the efforts to put a new Executive in place in Northern Ireland, can the Taoiseach outline to the House how he sees that happening? I think we all agree that fresh elections or a return to direct rule are not desirable or acceptable options. I do not see how they would advance the peace process and bring about the stability that is required for the peace process to continue to flourish. If it is Sinn Féin's position that it will not accept Arlene Foster as First Minister pending the outcome of the investigation into the cash-for-ash scandal, and she has not acknowledged or accepted that position, then how will that circle be squared? What initiatives are the Taoiseach proposing with Prime Minister May to break the impasse? There is a very serious impasse there which needs to be resolved.

On the issue of Brexit, which the Taoiseach also discussed with the Prime Minister on 9 March, did he raise with her the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland's statement that there should not be any special status for Northern Ireland as a result of these negotiations? It is difficult to see how we are to achieve our objectives of free movement of people, goods and services and of a seamless Border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland if there cannot be some special status recognised for Northern Ireland. How can Ireland achieve all of those objectives while the UK leaves the European Union and potentially leaves the customs union?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I agree entirely with the view, as I think everybody in this House does, that we need to have a functioning Executive back in Northern Ireland. We certainly do not need either another round of elections or the imposition of direct rule. We must find a path that avoids those two outcomes. We are all reflecting on the death of Martin McGuinness today. How, in the Taoiseach's view, will that impact on the timeline that is available to the parties in Northern Ireland? Does he think that the timeline should be extended, because there will be a process of genuine grieving involved to which space must be given and that process will impact on a deadline that says things have to be done by next Monday? Has the Taoiseach had those discussions with Secretary of State Brokenshire, whom, I have been informed by Deputy McDonald, has the authority to extend the timeframe without any legislative action other than his own?

I take it the Taoiseach has raised directly with the Prime Minister the Irish Government's views on the specific issues and impasses that there are, such as the Irish language Bill and the Bill of Rights. He has set out the Irish position in regard to that? Will the Taoiseach reiterate that for the House? How is the issue of legacy payments, in terms of costs that will arise post-Brexit for Northern Ireland, to be met? We understand that all these things have been raised by the Irish Government but it is important that the Taoiseach puts them on the record of the House.

My final question is in regard to the need for a special status. We have set out repeatedly in discussions here the unique situation on the island of Ireland. I am very concerned, and the more discussions I have with my European colleagues the more concerned I become, that Ireland will end up as collateral damage of the clear view that is emerging within Europe that the primacy of holding the entity that is the European Union together is so important that all other considerations are lesser, and that, whatever words are being used now, the specific requirements of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, the island of Ireland, will be pushed aside in that regard.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has said repeatedly today that it is the role and responsibility of the two large parties to get the Executive up and running. We know that. I want to unburden the Taoiseach of any need he might feel to keep repeating that. I want to remind him that in order for us to do that we have to have delivery of those things that were agreed. That means the DUP, Sinn Féin and the others parties putting their shoulders to the wheel. It also relies upon the Governments delivering. We do not have the scope here for me to go through the matter point-by-point and issue-by-issue, but let me remind the Taoiseach that it is an intergovernmental responsibility to ensure the delivery of equality provisions. It says so in the agreements. It was the Governments who took on, at an intergovernmental level, to deliver Acht na Gaeilge. It is the British Government that is blocking dealing with the issues of legacy. The Taoiseach and his officials are well aware of this. The question that then arises is what pressure, leverage, contact and diplomacy can the Taoiseach deploy to move the British system and, alongside the DUP, to actually deliver? That is what we are looking for. If we get delivery on the agreements as agreed, we are back in business. There is no blockage from our side.

On the issue of Brexit I share Deputy Howlin's concern. We are sleepwalking on these matters. I see the work of the Minister of State, Deputy Dara Murphy and of the Taoiseach, and the meetings and contacts that have happened. I want to acknowledge that and to commend it, but I think on the core essentials of needing a driving strategic position for the island, we are sleepwalking. I am increasingly alarmed that there is nearly a blasé or a laissez-faireview taken around the damage, not that might visit Ireland, but that will inevitably, unavoidably visit this county unless we attain that special status to which Deputy McGrath referred and which this House voted to support.

What moves has the Taoiseach made to secure that status? The health and durability of the Good Friday Agreement rely on the achievement of special status. Agriculture, agrifood and the smooth functioning of so many sectors of our economy rely on achieving that. I have other questions but I understand that I am out of time.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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There will be statements later. I call on Deputy Eamon Ryan for the final supplementary and then the Taoiseach who will have a very limited time to respond.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I have one key question in regard to the meeting with Prime Minister May and the role of this House. What is the role of this House when it comes to the final deal? The Prime Minister has been under huge pressure in terms of whether she would cede any vote or any call on it to the House of Commons or the House of Lords. When it comes to the end, and if, as Deputy Howlin or others have said here, it is patently a bad deal for Ireland, what are the powers of veto that we might have as one of the 27 and how would such powers be applied? Would any prospective deal be brought back to the House for consideration or is it something that would be exclusively decided within a European Council meeting and taken as a fait accompli, whatever our Taoiseach of the time decides?

I believe it would be appropriate for this House to be informed every step of the way but also to ultimately have a key role in any final deal. It is going to be of such consequence and it is appropriate for us to apply all the knowledge and different views of this House before any final call is made. How will this House get that power or what role does the Taoiseach believe it will have when it comes to the end point of these talks and negotiations in two years time?

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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If the Taoiseach could answer them all in two minutes please.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is ridiculous. I have had four speeches from well-intentioned Members, Deputies Michael McGrath, Brendan Howlin, Mary Lou McDonald and Eamon Ryan and I am expected to answer in one minute and 20 seconds.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is mad.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is not the way that it should be. These matters are far too serious-----

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Agreed. I know it is not the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's fault.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I will use some discretion.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----to be crammed into a one minute speech. Deputy McGrath mentioned the elections that took place in Northern Ireland and the result is very clear.

If I recall correctly, I think the Sinn Féin president said the priority was the establishment of the Executive over the appointment of the First Minister. An Executive arose from the Good Friday Agreement which has functioned in difficult circumstances and which, I would suggest, were more difficult than current circumstances but Deputy McDonald seems to be saying there will not be an Executive until the intergovernmental agreement is implemented. The fact of the matter is that everyday life goes on in Northern Ireland and there is a requirement for a Finance Minister, a Housing Minister, an Education Minister, an Agriculture Minister and all the Ministers who turn up at the North-South Ministerial Council. They have day-to-day work to do, so I again say to the Deputy it is a case of accepting responsibility and putting together an Executive. How are we to determine what the agreed wishes, objectives and proposals of the Executive and of the elected members representing the people of Northern Ireland are if we do not have some sense of agreement? While there were difficulties previously between the late Martin McGuinness when he was deputy First Minister and his three First Ministers, he was in a position to put forward a series of papers setting out what an agreed position for Northern Ireland was. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade is talking to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, James Brokenshire, today. I accept that the death of Martin McGuinness is an unforeseen circumstance and the question of whether an extension can be given is a matter the Minister and Secretary of State Brokenshire will discuss. Obviously, nobody wants to see this breakdown leading to further elections or direct rule.

I do not accept that this country will become a pawn in the negotiations between the UK and the EU. We have already set out matters very clearly for the lead negotiator in the Barnier task force. He wants the situation in Northern Ireland dealt with as one of his three priorities. This is very important. Within that, we have agreed that there will be no return to the hard border of the past because that brought with it sectarian violence. We have made this perfectly clear to the British Prime Minister and the British Government accepts that. We agreed at our meeting in Brussels that it should not be beyond the ingenuity and creativity of all those who have laboured long and hard to bring about a position where there is no hard border and where the situation is seamless. I have referred here previously to the issues that will now present themselves. What do we do in terms of water, energy and animal and veterinary health, which are all cross-Border issues where an all-island solution can be had? We have a unique set of circumstances here which constitute a special status. We are the only place in Europe that has a peace process, the only place in Europe where PEACE funds apply and the only place that has an international legally binding agreement lodged in the UN and backed by Europe and the US so we have a unique status. Let us build on that.

I have made it perfectly clear on quite a number of occasions that what I want to see in the negotiated outcome from a European perspective is that in respect of the wording of the Good Friday Agreement to allow and cater for the possibility of the people of Northern Ireland joining the Republic in a united Ireland at some future time by consent, the same process would apply as applied in East Germany and West Germany when the Berlin Wall came down and where there was a seamless transfer and they did not have to reapply for membership over a very long period of time. The European Council will make the final decisions based on the recommendations that will come through from the negotiating team. We sit on the European side here but want to retain our very close trading relationships with our colleagues in the UK and Northern Ireland. All the economic indicators and reports point out that the Republic and Northern Ireland would be most adversely affected by this. We are under no illusions about the scale of this challenge. It is coming at us now and we must deal with it. This is why I have offered on many occasions to have full up-to-date briefings for the leaders of the parties opposite so that they are fully acquainted with all the facts here. The triggering of Article 50 may contain some other relevant information about the principle of the closest possible relationship between the UK and the EU from hereon and what is behind it. This will consume all our time for the time ahead.

4:45 pm

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Will we have a vote before the final deal is signed off on?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We will certainly have information and discussions here on a regular basis. As leader of his party, the Deputy is entitled to have the full up-to-date briefing I have myself.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I know it is a topic that deserves far more time but I used discretion in giving an extra five minutes.