Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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17. To ask the Minister for Health his views on allowing access to abortion in circumstances in which a woman's physical or mental health is at risk; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12199/17]

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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On International Women's Day, I want to ask the Minister whether he thinks women's health matters as much as men's health in this country. If so, he must have been shocked by a recent report drawn up by a professor of psychiatry at Trinity College showing that women's mental and physical health is being affected by the ban on abortion in this country. Does the Minister intend to hasten the process of enabling women to access abortion in this country on health grounds?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I think we have significant specific women's mental health issues in this country. As the Deputy probably knows, the National Women's Council of Ireland and Trinity College made a successful bid to host the World Congress on Women's Mental Health, which is taking place in RDS in week. The Deputy is familiar with my position and that of the Government on how to deal with the eighth amendment. This position has been adopted by the House.

The Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 regulates access to a termination of pregnancy if a pregnant woman’s life, as distinct from her health, is at risk from a threat to her physical or mental health.

The principal constitutional issue dealt with in the Act is the right to life of the unborn with due regard to the right to life of the mother as set out in Article 40.3.3° of the Constitution.

The effect of this article is to prohibit abortion in Ireland subject to exemption where the life of a pregnant woman is at risk. The 2013 Act does not confer new rights to termination of pregnancy, but clarifies existing rights. As the Deputy knows, a referendum would be required to broaden the scope of the 2013 Act.

Any proposed change to Article 40.3.3° of the Constitution requires careful consideration of the policy and legal issues involved. The removal of the current constitutional protection of the life of the unborn would have significant implications for the law. This would require questions to be answered about our existing laws and, most importantly, the future legislative framework which would apply.

Accordingly, and for these reasons, the Government established a Citizens' Assembly in line with the programme for Government. The assembly, which is chaired by Ms Justice Mary Laffoy, is discussing the issue of the eighth amendment over a period of five weekends. I followed its very intensive engagement last weekend. A report setting out the assembly's recommendations on this matter is expected to be presented to the House in the first half of 2017.

I look forward to the outcome of the Citizens' Assembly's detailed examination of this issue and to participating in the arrangements by the Oireachtas for consideration of the assembly's proposals.

The Deputy knows I believe we need a referendum on the eighth amendment but I also know we need a majority to get any constitutional referendum passed. The Citizens' Assembly is playing an important role in this regard.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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The Deputy is the Minister for Health.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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Is he concerned the Citizens' Assembly has not even got around to discussing abortion on the grounds of health after four meetings? Has he done anything about that? When does he believe it will get around to discussing it? It will be five years since the death of Ms Savita Halappanavar in October and we still do not have abortion for what led to Savita's death. Abortion does not exist in this country where a woman's health is at risk. Doctors gambled that her life was not at risk and it was only her health. This differentiation between a woman's health and her life is exceptionally dangerous. Why does abortion exist for health reasons in Burkina Faso, the poorest country on the planet, but it does not exist in a European Union state with same-sex marriage? There is only one reason, and it is because of cowardly politicians failing to legislate to protect women's lives and their health in this country, kowtowing to the Catholic church for the past number of years. They have not challenged the amendment they pushed.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy may call politicians or previous Members of these Houses cowardly if she wishes but she would hardly call the Irish people cowardly. Whether I agree or disagree with their decision, it was the people of Ireland who inserted the eighth amendment into the Constitution.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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That was over 30 years ago.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Quite frankly, I do not agree with it and we need a referendum on the issue. This was not just dreamed up on the floor of the Dáil but it was passed by the people of this country. It is not for me to discuss the legislative constitutional realities of any other country but the Deputy knows full well that if we want to change the Constitution of this country, we need 50% plus one to accept the proposal. I see the Deputy is wearing the "repeal the eighth" jumper, and the challenge for anyone who believes in repealing the eighth amendment will be to engage with the electorate and the citizens of this country on what would replace it. I know the Deputy has views and, in fairness to her, she put forward legislative ideas in this regard. We have seen there are significant different views in this country and they are different from mine and the Deputy's. I hope we have a referendum and I expect we will ultimately have a referendum. The Citizens' Assembly is doing good work and it is not for me to dictate what the Citizens' Assembly discusses. It is for all of us to expect it to report quite quickly to this House. That will happen and it is then for us to act on it.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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I am wearing a "repeal" shirt and I hope the censorship that is ongoing with the camera work avoiding showing it will end. A side angle shot is being used. We should not censor the word "repeal" in the Dáil and people should be able to state it. I am wearing it because I have just been on O'Connell Bridge, where thousands of young people in particular and mainly young women are saying they will not wait. They are impatient because it mainly affects them. It is their generation of women of child-bearing age that is affected.

Does the Minister at least agree that banning abortion does not lessen it? In Holland, for example, with the most liberal abortion regime in the world, they have the lowest rate of abortion in the world bar none. The abortion pills mifepristone and misoprostol are used all over the world. They are used for 80% of abortions in Finland but a woman in Ireland will get 14 years in jail for accessing them online. Why is the Government intercepting them and preventing women from taking their chances online when it is not willing to legislate?. It is just adding expense, stress, stigma, secrecy and shame. I see the censorship is ongoing. I do not know where the order is coming from but it is outrageous. When will the Minister speak to the Citizens' Assembly about discussing the issue of health as a grounds for abortion in this country?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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If I started dictating or directing the work of the Citizens' Assembly in any way, the Deputy would rightly be asking what I was doing interfering with the Citizens' Assembly, bringing my own views or those of the Government or anybody else to bear on it. The Citizens' Assembly is chaired by the very eminent Judge Mary Laffoy and I trust it will do its work well. It has heard from an array of speakers and received a huge number of submissions, showing how emotive this issue is and the strong views that many people have in this regard.

I believe I agree with the Deputy's assertion that banning abortion does not lessen abortion. We must have a referendum on the issue. We must have a serious discussion, as I indicated in my reply, about what the legal framework will look like should the people of this country decide they wish to repeal the eighth amendment.

In the ten months I have been Minister for Health, we have had three debates in this House on the issue of abortion, the eighth amendment or matters linked to the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act, including one last night. No matter how many more debates we have in this House, in the clear legal views made available to me by the Attorney General, the only way of changing this further would be constitutional change. We must wait for the Citizens' Assembly to report.