Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

9. To ask the Taoiseach the number of commissions of inquiry under the remit of his Department. [11615/17]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The two commissions of investigation currently under way for which I am the specified Minister under the Commissions of Investigation Act 2004, are the Fennelly commission, which was established in April 2014 and is chaired by Mr. Justice Nial Fennelly, and the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, IBRC, commission, which was established in June 2015 and is chaired by Mr. Justice Brian Cregan.

The commissions are independent in the performance of their functions and it would not be appropriate for me to comment on any aspects of their work.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. Has he any indication as to when the Fennelly commission will report? It has been going on for quite some time now, if I am not mistaken. Is there an update from the judge on the progress or lack thereof? As for the IBRC commission, will we have an interim report from that inquiry at some stage? Has the Taoiseach had a further update on Project Eagle since the all-party meeting some months ago? As the report by the Committee of Public Accounts on Project Eagle is imminent, the terms of reference on Project Eagle should be finalised as soon as possible. I thought we had agreed broad outlines of terms of reference at those meetings. My final question for the Taoiseach is around current inquiries. He will recall we had some discussion on this the last time. How many inquiries has the Government under its compass, overall, at the moment? How many inquiries are ongoing as we speak? Perhaps the Taoiseach will forward the information to me because I know it is not contained in this parliamentary question.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

And their costs.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, and their costs. I would appreciate if the Taoiseach could send on a written note to me in that regard. During our last discussion on this issue, the Taoiseach said he was looking into the idea of a permanent unit to have responsibility for inquiries. We need to do some reflection - away from the issue of today - as to a template around the whole area of inquiries and how they are conducted. It is not easy but I know there were proposals in the past. In other jurisdictions there are specific departments to focus on this area. Equally with regard to performance within organisations, all of these matters arise because they give rise to issues that have not been dealt with internally by organisations or by various other organisations that are meant to cover this. For example, it is extraordinary the degree to which the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission does not seem to have the capacity - and nor do people have any confidence in it - as one agency that is supposed to deal with all the issues that arise from An Garda Síochána. In the area of health, for example with the Grace case, we are dealing with the lack of any internal dynamic that should kick in when something wrong takes place. The same has happened with the Tusla file in respect of Maurice McCabe. I read that file and the casualness with which it was dealt with internally by the organisation is quite shocking and striking. All of this is leading to-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy needs to conclude.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I apologise.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Fennelly commission is due to report this year by the end of March 2017. There may be some slight delay on that depending on the responses received by Mr. Justice Nial Fennelly. It is due by the end of March and the cost to date has been €3.106 million. On IBRC, the timeframe on the final report for the first module of its work regarding the Siteserv transaction is the end of December 2017. With regard to Project Eagle, I met the party leaders on all of that. We felt it better that, as the report of the Committee of Public Accounts is pending publication, we should wait to see what its observations or recommendations are in respect of Project Eagle. We need to consider the findings and conclusions of that report when it is published. It may contain information that would need to be factored in to terms of reference for the commission of investigation we have already agreed on. We would need to consider the likelihood of a commission of investigation being able to get any further relevant information for the commission about the issues involved, bearing in mind the large amount of evidence it has already received from NAMA and from other interested parties. It is an important point to bear in mind given the substantial funding involved. There is €4.7 million in the Department's Vote for 2017 and this includes provision for the Fennelly commission due to report at the end of March, as I have said, and the first element of the Siteserv module of IBRC, due by the end of this year. While there was an element of €10 million provided for the proposed commission of investigation into Project Eagle, based on the estimated cost of the IBRC commission it is not possible at this stage to be sure what might actually fall due for payment in 2017. If the funding available is not sufficient, we will have to find the resources from within the Department or somewhere else.

I have referred before to the permanent structure. The Law Reform Commission made recommendations on this and considered it was not appropriate. However, it did consider there were some other valuable elements and I am considering those.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I want to raise two issues. First, in respect of the commission on NAMA and Project Eagle, I hear a kind of reticence in the Taoiseach's presentation that there is somehow a question mark over whether there will in fact be a commission. When we undertook our examination in the PAC, it was never understood or intended to be an alternative to the commission we had all agreed to and signed up to in principle. I would like the Taoiseach to confirm for us that the commission will in fact go ahead. I understand the Taoiseach needs the report from the PAC to be factored into the terms of reference and I think that reasonable. However, he should not be using the PAC as a means of not carrying forward the commission. I would like him to confirm that.

Second, on the mother and baby homes, I earlier raised the issues around Tuam with the Taoiseach. I think he made a commitment, although he might confirm this, that he would meet and consult with victims, survivors and advocacy groups. As he does that, one of the core things that needs to be considered is the particular issue of legal representation for survivors because they are currently cast as onlookers or spectators in an inquiry that has had the most traumatic consequences for them and their lives.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I met on 4 October last year with the party leaders. We agreed in principle that the Government will establish a commission of investigation under the Act of 2004 to investigate any significant matters of public concern in regard to NAMA. The party leaders also agreed then that there will be limitations on the commission's work, given the location of potential witnesses, documentation outside the jurisdiction and ongoing criminal investigations. Since then, the Committee of Public Accounts, which is not an alternative to a commission of investigation, has been holding hearings in regard to the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. It received a very large amount of evidence from NAMA and many interested parties, including parties from outside this jurisdiction. We await the report of the PAC.

After the PAC report is published, we will see what it says, and the Deputy will know more about that than I do, given she is a member of the committee. We will need to consider any findings, conclusions or recommendations that may be made by the committee. For example, the PAC report may contain information that would need to be factored into the terms of reference that would be proposed for the commission. As I said, we will also need to consider whether the commission of investigation would be able to find out other information beyond what has been considered by the PAC report. If information or personnel are outside the jurisdiction, or if there are criminal investigations, that puts limitations on what a commission of investigation might be able to do.

That is not resiling from the decision in principle to have a commission of investigation into this matter. It is being realistic in the sense of what will be in the PAC report, what are the matters it has considered, what are the recommendations, whether all work would be replicated by a commission of investigation and where are the areas that neither the PAC nor a commission of investigation has been able to go into because of the limitations of jurisdiction, documentation or whatever. That is where the matter stands.

Seán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I think most Members would welcome a report in regard to the number of tribunals of inquiry and commissions of investigation that are underway at present, or even if we could be told where to find that information.

While I appreciate it is not under the ambit of the Department of the Taoiseach, I want to refer to the possibility of a commission of investigation into the Stardust fire in 1981. I welcome the fact the former Deputy, Mr. Justice Patrick McCartan, has been appointed to do a scoping exercise. In the Taoiseach's capacity as head of Government, can he give an assurance that Mr. Justice McCartan will be allowed to carry out his work independently, given there are suggestions previous scoping exercises were interfered with by the relevant Department. Hopefully, he can carry out his work independently. Then, should he find that a commission of investigation is necessary, I ask that this be proceeded with without delay.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will have a report circulated or made available to all Members on all the tribunals and commissions of investigation that are currently underway by Government across the entire spectrum. The Moriarty tribunal began 20 years ago and we are still paying for it.

I can confirm for Deputy Haughey that the appointment of the former Deputy, Mr. Justice Patrick McCartan, was on the basis of his being a person of integrity and credibility who is trusted by the relatives of Stardust victims as being a fit person to carry out this scoping exercise. It is important to say that the issue which was flagged very strenuously at Government by the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, was that the scoping exercise of Mr. Justice McCartan is to investigate the new evidence that has come to light through the relatives of the victims of the Stardust fire. Mr. Justice McCartan will be allowed to do his work completely independently and there will be no interference from the Department in his work. I understand he will be able to do this pretty expeditiously. If he decides and recommends, on the basis of that new evidence, that a commission of investigation is warranted, then that is the decision of Government. However, it was only right and proper to reflect, analyse and scrutinise the new evidence available and to see whether that warrants a new commission of investigation. If his recommendation is that it does, that is what will happen.