Dáil debates

Wednesday, 8 March 2017

12:15 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Today is International Women's Day. There is no large section in the programme for Government regarding programmes for women but there is a small paragraph on page 105 under the heading "Empowering Women", which states:

Following the introduction of legislation encouraging increased female participation in politics, we will publish an updated National Women's Strategy by the end of 2016, further promoting women's participation in decision making. We will empower women to ensure that households headed by women are no longer at a higher risk of poverty. We will take measures to reduce the gender pay gap - inclusive of increasing investment in childcare and reviewing the lower pay of women and gender inequality for senior appointments. We will also seek to promote:- Wage transparency by requiring companies of 50 and more to complete a wage survey

- Locally delivered courses for women, comprising a series of training opportunities on self-development and work related skills, to assist a return to the labour market ...

- Increased female participation on state boards to 40% ...

Will the Taoiseach send me a written note, which he might publish subsequently, on how the Government has measured up on each specific commitment in the programme for Government and identify - indent by indent - the progress that has been made on each of those objectives contained in it? Perhaps he has that information to hand.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is the Deputy's question in respect of women only or the entire programme?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The entire programme is that little bit in this document.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I know that but the note the Deputy has sought is it-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is that little bit in the document that I am talking about. They are specific proposals.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will be very happy to do that. I remind the Deputy that-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not a new strategy where-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a conversation on this. This is becoming a farce.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform is bringing in gender-proofing for budgets that he is preparing for 2018.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am very glad to hear that the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, has withdrawn the terms of reference proposed for the Grace inquiry. It was very clear that the Minister of State and the Government made a huge error in seeking to exclude victims and families. I assume that the new terms of reference will remedy that situation. When will the new terms of reference be published? What opportunity will those of us on the Opposition benches have to amend those terms of reference? I am mindful that yesterday the terms of reference were seen by the media before Members of the Oireachtas saw them. In addition, a ridiculously tight timeframe was afforded to Members-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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One hour.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Deputy Howlin is correct in identifying that one hour was provided for Members to bring forward amendments. That is not a serious way to deal with these terms of reference. The Taoiseach has acknowledged the upset and anger that getting this wrong has caused. We certainly do not want a rerun of that. When will we see the terms of reference? Can the Taoiseach assure us that we will be given adequate space and time to consider those terms of reference and to bring forward amendments should they prove necessary?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Ó Laoghaire on the same matter.

Photo of Donnchadh Ó LaoghaireDonnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is also vitally important that terms of reference specifically would be circulated in adequate time. We all received the motion in adequate time but obviously we did not have sight of the terms of reference and it is these that will underpin the entire inquiry. It is crucially important that the terms of reference deal with the allegations of a cover-up right back to 1996, and further back if required.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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On the same matter, procedurally this is something about which we need to be clear. I had to find the terms of reference on the Department of Health's website. They were not available or attached to the order of the House. We were asked, within a one-hour timeframe, to amend a motion without having sight of the terms of reference to which it referred. Procedurally, the Ceann Comhairle's office should insist that when an issue such as this arises, the terms of reference would be circulated to Members as well as the formal motion adopting them.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is part of the dilemma. Deputy McDonald described it as a huge error. The Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, made a genuine attempt to deal with this matter because it is so important.

It is also important to say that the Act that sets these up requires the order to be laid before the House and the terms of reference to be separate. The terms of reference are approved by the Cabinet, that is, the Government. They are not voted on by the Dáil. However, it is important, in the light of contributions that have been made, that the Minister of State, having withdrawn the motion to set up the commission of investigation, is prepared to talk to people such as Deputies Howlin, McDonald and Ó Laoghaire and others from the parties opposite in order that the Government can amend the terms of reference to the suitability and acceptance of everybody. It is important for the Deputies to understand that the terms of reference are approved by Government. They can only be amended by Government, and this is the reason the Minister of State has withdrawn the motion. He wants to get it right and he can do so today by consultation with people. The Government can approve those amended terms if the Deputies are satisfied, that is, if that is what it takes. These may be a very small adjustments to satisfy people's demands and legitimate queries.

12:25 pm

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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When will we see the amended terms of reference?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This should not be unduly delayed.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach was asked for a timeline for this.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It could take any amount of time.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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A meeting has been called for 2.10 p.m. in the office of the Minister of State, Deputy McGrath.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Gino Kenny.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Do I not get to raise an issue because I have raised-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No. I call Deputy Kenny.

Photo of Gino KennyGino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I acknowledge Vera and Paul Twomey, who are in the Public Gallery. Vera and Paul have been with me for the past nine days, walking from Cork to Dublin to raise awareness of-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does this concern promised legislation?

Photo of Gino KennyGino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Yes, to raise the plight of their daughter. We had a four and a half hour meeting yesterday with the Minister for Health, quite a long, arduous meeting after a long walk. I want the Taoiseach to commit to what the Minister said, which was witnessed by Deputy Micheál Martin and a number of other Deputies, that is, that the medicinal cannabis Bill I introduced plus any relevant statutory instrument will be legislated for in a 12-week timeframe.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.

Photo of Gino KennyGino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I ask him to give this commitment because not only is Vera's family-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The time is up, Deputy.

Photo of Gino KennyGino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----waiting for clarity, we also need political clarity on this issue.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I can never give a commitment on the timescale for any legislation because, first, the Business Committee of the Dáil dictates when any legislation comes before the House and, second, one has no idea how many Deputies might wish to contribute to debate on a Bill. The issue in the case of Deputy Kenny's Bill is that, following a meeting yesterday, a medical consultant needs to supervise the prescribing of medicinal cannabis. I understand a meeting is to take place between the parents, Vera and Paul, the general practitioner and a consultant paediatric neurologist. I think that is the next stage of the matter. As the Minister pointed out, even if legislation is introduced, a supervising paediatric neurologist is still needed to authorise the prescribing of medicinal cannabis. This was explained yesterday in Deputy Harty's committee as well.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Mattie McGrath.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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May I correct the record?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is just for the record.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Not now. I am sorry, Deputy. These are questions on promised legislation. I call Deputy McGrath.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputies cannot mislead people.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I refer to the Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act. We are all rubbing our hands about the case of Grace - rightly so - and the Tuam mothers and babies. I put a question to the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, about the abuse cases continuing to this day. As part of her reply, I was informed by Tusla that, according to the most recent figures disaggregated by the category of abuse for the years 2013 to 2014, a total of 19,407 cases of physical, sexual and emotional abuse as well as abuse relating to neglect were received in 2013. There was an increase in 2014 and 18,235 cases in 2015. This is going on under our noses as we sit here, rub our hands, give out about the past and talk about what we will do about the future. More than 18,000 cases of neglect and sexual, physical and emotional abuse were recorded in 2015. They are the latest figures, and we can be sure this happened in 2016 and is happening today. We need to wash a lot of dirty linen, see what is going on in Tusla, the HSE and under our noses, and not have inquiries 20 years from now, when we will all be gone, about what we let happen under our watch.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is part of a structure that has been put in place with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, the Minister and the Child and Family Agency. The Children First legislation will make reporting mandatory in such cases. This is an attempt to grapple with a situation that has been around for a very long time. That work continues, and the Government will not relent until the opportunity and facilities are in place to prevent this where humanly possible.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I understand that Deputy Martin wishes to clarify something.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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A number of Deputies, including Deputy Gino Kenny, were at the meeting yesterday with the Minister, Deputy Harris. Much good work was done, but I wish to clarify that at no stage was any commitment given, to my understanding, that Deputy Kenny's Bill would be delivered in 12 weeks. The Minister referred to a compassionate access programme. He wanted it delivered in three weeks and-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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All right.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is a very important point. It is very important that there be complete honesty and transparency about the meeting and that everyone be clear about the record of it. I do not want it to be said that I witnessed something I clearly did not witness. In fact, the opposite happened at the meeting.

Photo of Gino KennyGino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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No.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Everybody else present said clearly to Deputy Kenny that there was no chance of the actual legislation being completed within 12 weeks and that many people had difficulties with it.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has clarified the point. We cannot get into a debate on the matter.

Photo of John CurranJohn Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I join Deputy Micheál Martin, the Taoiseach and others in expressing sympathy for the lady and her two children who died in a tragic house fire in Clondalkin last night. It should also be remembered that another lady and her son are in a critical condition in hospital. I also wish to put on the record that as somebody who has lived in Clondalkin all my life, I witnessed a palpable sense of shock this morning at the tragic loss of such young life. It is not something we have experienced very often. My deepest sympathies are with the families of those who died and those who are injured.

The Government commits on page 30 of the programme for Government in so far as practicable to keep people in their homes. In particular, I note that the mortgage interest supplement scheme expired in 2014 for new entrants and is due to be completed by the end of this year. There are still 2,000 people in receipt of this mortgage interest supplement and it is due to expire at the end of December or on 1 January. Will the Taoiseach review this date with a view to keeping these people in their homes? There are 2,000 people in receipt of the payment. Will he phase it out on a gradual basis in order that people are transitioned into secure homes or houses or retain the houses they have? I ask him not to close the scheme down on an arbitrary date.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will ask the Minister to consider this in the context of the preparations for the budget.

Photo of Danny Healy-RaeDanny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I wish to ask the Taoiseach about an announcement made by his Minister of State with responsibility for people with disabilities. When Deputy Finian McGrath went down to Kerry, he announced €30 million extra in funding for services for people, specifically children, with disabilities.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does this relate to the programme for Government?

Photo of Danny Healy-RaeDanny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Yes. However, across the road from St. Mary of the Angels, which he visited, is a school for severely handicapped children, St. Francis Special School. Is the Taoiseach aware that there has been no physiotherapist there for 50 children-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, seriously, I do not want to-----

Photo of Danny Healy-RaeDanny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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-----since last September? This is in the programme for Government - children with disabilities.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I doubt physiotherapists in Kerry are specifically referred to in the programme for Government, in fairness.

Photo of Danny Healy-RaeDanny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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In fairness, that is what the Minister of State announced below in Kerry, that there was €30 million extra for these services. At the same time, there has been no physiotherapist in the school across the yard from last September to date. That is not fair on those children and parents.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is more of a Topical Issue matter, but there is a process for the appointment of physiotherapists and qualified personnel to look after children's needs in this regard, and I am sure that is being followed.

Photo of Tony McLoughlinTony McLoughlin (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The programme for Government commits to improving overall access to mental health services in this country. On this basis, will the Taoiseach please advise the House as to the progress of the delivery of recommendations of A Vision for Change? I ask this because, as I am sure he is aware after his meeting with Sharon Boles last week during his visit to Sligo, we urgently need a Jigsaw-like youth mental health service established in Sligo and Leitrim.

1 o’clock

We need improved resources for our Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services, CAMHS, in the region to reduce long waiting lists and the appointment of a lead consultant psychiatrist for this service as a matter of urgency.

12:35 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have sent a note to the Minister of State with responsibility for mental health services, Deputy McEntee, arising from the meeting I had in Sligo with Deputy McLoughlin and Ms Sharon Boles in respect of several queries about facilities for mental health in the Sligo area. The process of appointment of a consultant is a separate matter the Health Service Executive, HSE, will work on. I expect the Minister of State will respond to Deputy McLoughlin in time.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Minister of State replying now?

Photo of Helen McEnteeHelen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Yes. In respect of A Vision for Change, we have implemented almost 80% of the recommended positions, that is, more than 8.500 staff. Several other positions have been approved but we are having difficulty filling the vacancies.

With regard to Jigsaw, five more will open this year and there will be a new process for other counties to put themselves forward to open Jigsaw services too.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Companies (Accounting) Bill 2016 was published last August. It provides for a simplified system of accounting for small and medium-sized enterprises, SMEs, that will save money and time and minimise bureaucracy. This legislation arises from a European directive that was adopted three years ago and our competitors already have put in place similar legislation with the result that Irish SMEs have been operating at a competitive disadvantage for the past two years. There is a general inquiry to know when exactly the legislation will be put in place.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It will be on Report Stage in this House the week after next.

Photo of Seán HaugheySeán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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There is a commitment in the programme for Government for a new emergency department in Beaumont Hospital in North Dublin. The hospital opened in 1987, 30 years ago, and there has been no major investment during that time. It is operating at maximum capacity. That area has a large elderly population and a large growing population. Has the HSE capital programme for 2017 been drafted? Have Ministers seen it? Is this project part of that capital programme and when will this long-promised project go ahead?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The HSE has approval for 2017, which the Minister has accepted. I cannot advise in detail on the proposition for a new emergency department at Beaumont Hospital but I will ask the Minister to respond directly to Deputy Haughey.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I wish the Taoiseach a happy International Women's Day and remind him that alcohol is one of the leading contributors to breast cancer, a disease which sadly kills many women in this country.

Yesterday the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Corcoran Kennedy, launched a new website, www.askaboutalcohol.ieand encouraged us all to think about and manage our drinking. Sinn Féin strongly welcomes this website. I was a little disturbed to hear that the Minister of State is reflecting on the discussions to date in the Oireachtas because I think those are the discussions which take place at the Fine Gael parliamentary party meeting, since there has been very little discussion on the floor of the House of the Public Health (Alcohol) Bill 2016. This Bill is now a year old and we need it expedited as a matter of urgency. On International Women's Day, given that alcohol contributes to breast cancer, when will this legislation progress?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Reflection is a very important part of the democratic process. When people raise issues of concern and in the public interest those should be reflected upon. This Bill is on Committee Stage in the Seanad and has to take its course there where Members will want to contribute and do their business before it comes here. We are not guillotining Bills any more. Let people have their say as they wish. The Minister of State, Deputy Corcoran Kennedy is perfectly correct to reflect carefully on issues raised by Deputies from any part of the House or indeed by Members of the Seanad.

Photo of James LawlessJames Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Last November I raised the question of community employment, CE, schemes, and the difficulty many community organisations were having in finding and retaining individuals in these schemes. This arises from a decision to change the rules last summer, implemented by the Minister for Social Protection.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Deputy talking about legislation or the programme for Government?

Photo of James LawlessJames Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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It is in the programme for Government, page 52, section P. In response to me at the time and to colleagues who have raised the issue since then, the Minister referred to a report that was pending on how CE schemes are and would be implemented.

I am concerned that there is an ideological issue at play here. Some, including the Minister, see the CE schemes as a means to an end with job activation as the ultimate goal. Others see them as an end in themselves where individuals can contribute constructively within a structured format in their communities which is mutually beneficial to the individual and the host organisation.

When will the report the Minister mentioned issue? Is it imminent? What side does the Taoiseach see it coming down on?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government recently heard a report from the Minister on this where he said he is anxious to change the construction of CE schemes to allow more people participate in them. I expect he will bring this to public attention very shortly. The intention is to continue CE schemes but because of the rising rate of employment there is a different category available for CE schemes and the Minister is anxious to facilitate that.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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On International Women's Day I point out that the Domestic Violence Bill 2017 is promised legislation and the pre-legislative scrutiny was completed in September 2015. When is the Bill likely to come to the House in its final form?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That Bill completed Second Stage in the Seanad last week. It will proceed through the Seanad.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is en route.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is en route.

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I am sick of raising this issue with the Taoiseach and he is doing nothing about it. This is promised legislation. The Taoiseach promised that the cataract treatment waiting list would go from 24 months to 18 months but instead it has gone from 24 months to 30 months. People are going blind waiting to have their cataracts removed. I have asked the Taoiseach frequently about this matter here. Before Christmas I gave a clear plan to the Minister for Health as to how for instance in County Kerry we could tackle the problem. So far, although the National Treatment Purchase Fund, NTPF, has given more than €5 million for ophthalmology, we are not tackling the problem. There is a solution. The Minister has the solution. I ask the Taoiseach in the nicest possible way to please ensure that cataracts can be removed. It costs €2,600 to take a cataract away from a person's eye. If it is not taken in time the person goes blind. I have the names, personal public service, PPS, numbers and the dates of birth of two people in Kerry who lost their sight because they were on a waiting list. I know the Taoiseach does not want that to happen. I plead with him to take the Minister aside and talk to him about this, and talk to the people in the HSE. The Taoiseach should get the Minister to do his job properly and stop people going blind. This is a civilised society and it should not be happening.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not doubt the Deputy's ingenuity but I do not think any legislation is promised on cataracts.

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I am very sorry but there is.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Maybe if the Deputy put down a Topical Issue Matter he could go through all of this.

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I apologise. It is in the programme for Government. The commitment is that the Government would try to introduce the Mayo model around the country.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is about supplying the resources so that professionals can do the cataract operations. It is a very successful operation. In view of the way the Deputy has raised it here, I will have the Minister contacted and he will advise the Deputy on the Kerry list he is talking about.

Photo of Josepha MadiganJosepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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It is International Women's Day today and the affordable childcare scheme Bill 2017 will be extremely important. Many anxious mothers are waiting for it to be enacted. The heads of the Bill were listed under priority legislation on 30 January last. When will this happen?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The intention of the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, on behalf of Government, is to have this introduced and implemented by 1 September. That means it must move along fairly quickly. The Minister will contact the Deputy.

12:45 pm

Photo of Joe CareyJoe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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When will the health (transport support) Bill come to the House for debate?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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At long last, I can inform the Deputy that the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, is in discussions with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform regarding this matter. The Minister of State expects to bring the Bill here in a couple of weeks.