Tommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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10. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the outcome of the presentation to the Joint Committee on Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs on 25 January 2017 regarding the arrangements and costs involved in locating Seanad Éireann in the ceramics room of the National Museum of Ireland; the consultation taking place with staff of the National Museum on the matter; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3743/17]

Tommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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I have been raising the wholly inappropriate move of Seanad Éireann to the ceramics room of the National Museum of Ireland since last July when I was contacted by a number of concerned constituents, including Dr. Mark Clinton of An Taisce. I contacted the Ceann Comhairle, the Taoiseach and Minister for Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs on the issue and proposed possible alternative locations, including the Round Room of the Mansion House, Dublin Castle and public buildings in other cities, possibly in Cork or Galway. I also proposed using the large former committee room in Kildare House, where the Committee of Public Accounts, on which both Deputy Durkan and I sat, used to meet. Why is €1.5 million being spent disrupting a great national institution which oversees artefacts from 10,000 years of human habitation on this island for the sake of the Seanad?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I would love to bring the Seanad to Galway. The Deputy asked about a meeting which was to be held on 25 January last. I am advised that the meeting did not take place. An inherent element of the advancement of the work of the Office of Public Works is its active, continuous engagement with the management and staff of the National Museum of Ireland. The Deputy referred to a number of alternative locations. The relocation of the Seanad would require the relocation of staff, including security and audiovisual services.

After a prolonged search it was agreed by everybody that temporary relocation to the ceramics room in the National Museum of Ireland was appropriate. The Office of Public Works has been actively engaged with the management and staff of the museum to assist with the process of its preparation of the detailed plans and tender documents required to advance these works. Any and all of the works proposed will ensure the integrity of the museum will be retained and respected at all times. The outcome of the investigative works that are now being undertaken will inform the detailed design and specifications of the works required and, accordingly, will facilitate the detailed cost estimate.

I take this opportunity to advise the Deputy that a lot of the work being done in the museum will be permanent work of benefit to it into the future. Disabled access is being provided and the fabric of the building is being enhanced and this will be of benefit to the museum into the future when the Seanad relocates to Leinster House. A large element of the cost relates to IT services, mechanical and electrical, and the installation of a lift for disabled access.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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Why are we going through all of this? I have had many experiences of the Office of Public Works and often times I have not been impressed with its performance. The Secretary General of the Oireachtas, Mr. Peter Finnegan, detailed in a letter to me last year the reason the move was necessary. As I said, committee room 1, where we met with our officials is on the same campus. Many members are located in the Agriculture House campus. What is the reason for this move? Is it related to the grandeur of the Seanad Chamber or to the Seanad as an institution? I was among those who supported the proposal to abolish the Seanad and to increase the membership of the Dáil because of the fundamental role we play and because I believe the people are the second House anyway.

Approximately €1.5 million has been spent already. I understand the OPW has dug pits without planning permission. What is proposed is a change of use of the building. Has planning permission been sought for it? The works were supposed to be under way by now and completed in the autumn. This process is a complete mess. This is cloak and dagger stuff about a great national institution. Why did we go down this road?

I understand An Taisce has made a complaint to Dublin City Council about this move. This is not exempted development. Why are we doing this? Why not just relocate the institution to Kildare House where the staff involved are located, the cost of which would be considerably lower?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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The decision to relocate to the National Museum of Ireland was made by the Houses of the Oireachtas and not the Office of Public Works. The OPW is only the facilitator of the works. The works currently under way are investigative works which will inform the design in terms of what needs to be done and what permits or consents are needed in that regard. As I said, a large element of the expenditure relates to the audio-visual services required and the installation of a lift, which will be of benefit to the museum into the future.

In regard to the location, every aspect and proposal was examined in detail. The Houses of the Oireachtas agreed that this was the best location to move to.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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Deputy Durkan and I were members of the Committee of Public Accounts when a proposal was put forward to fix the floor and roof of the Seanad Chamber. At that stage, the proposal was to move the Seanad to the Natural History Museum where there appeared to be more space and so on.

This seems very disruptive for the institution concerned, which we have all had experience of as children. We all recall visiting it for the first time and how evocative it was in teaching us about who we are and the great history of our people and country. The staff of the museum are being discommoded. I accept the Seanad could not have been relocated to the National Library and so on. A great deal of money is being spent on this project by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. As I said, to date €1.5 million has been spent on it. Is the final cost likely to be several million euro? If so, this is a costly escapade and one that is totally unnecessary. I am sure Senators would agree that it is possible to do one's work in any reasonable size space. There are a number of such spaces around this House, including in Kildare House. I do not see why we are going down this road.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Was any thought given to the Seanad relocating to the old parliament building at the Bank of Ireland? I do not wish to be overly grand about this but it would have been a nice correlation.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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The House of Lords.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I do not have to hand all of the options considered. The necessity to move has been well documented. If the existing building is left as it is and there is ever a fire in it we will have no building. The requirements of a move have been decided by the Houses of the Oireachtas and not the Office of Public Works. The OPW is meeting those requirements as requested.

The Houses of the Oireachtas was involved at all stages in deciding the new location for the Seanad. No more than other issues that are raised, a decision has been made and we have to get on with the work. That is what the Office of Public Works is doing at this stage.