Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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4. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the role his Department has in the establishment of an Oireachtas budget office to support the Committee on Budgetary Oversight; the appropriate public service grade that should be head of such an office; and the reason for the delay in the hiring of necessary staff. [10846/17]

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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It is vital that this Dáil is involved at every stage of the budget process, reviewing capital plans. We agreed this less than a year ago. The Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, at the time said that we should look at what the OECD is saying and bring in the best analysis. The OECD said clearly that we need a budget oversight capability, budget office and economics office within the Parliament to assist in this review process. We agreed to that eight or nine months ago, but nothing has happened since. What is the Minister's Department doing? What is its role? What grade does the Minister think should be head of this office? When will it happen? Why has it taken nine months not to do something that is critical, in my mind, for analysis in the whole economic area?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Of course it is not true to say that nothing has happened. That is actually wrong.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The Minister does not have the staff.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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The Government is very supportive of the Oireachtas having an enhanced input into discussions on budgetary priorities.

It is for this reason that the programme for Government contains a commitment to establish a parliamentary budget office following on from the recommendations of very report to which Deputy Ryan referred. The Houses of the Oireachtas Commission met with officials from my Department in December last year to discuss the matter of staffing generally. I know that at this meeting the commission agreed to furnish a staffing review to my Department to allow informed consideration of all future staffing requests, including that of the head of the parliamentary budget office.

The Oireachtas submitted this review to my Department on 17 February 2017 and sanction for the head of the parliamentary budget office has now been issued.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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What is the grade for the head of that office? My understanding of those talks was that there was a difference between the Oireachtas and the Minister's Department. His Department was insisting the post be at principal officer, PO, level and the Oireachtas wished it to be at assistant secretary level. That was the reason there was not agreement. My understanding from talking to people here is that argument has been going on since last November before the meeting in December, which may have been called to resolve the differences.

Is it true that the Minister's Department felt that the post should be at principal officer level? Does the Minister think that is appropriate? Will that be the level advertised or will the post be advertised at assistant secretary level? I believe it should be at assistant secretary level because we need someone with real experience, clout and stature to lead that important role.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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My Department generally has differences with every Government Department it deals with; that is what it is there for. It is there to make sure that there is consistency in respect of staffing and spending decisions. The view of my Department was that the appropriate level for this role was principal officer. The very reason for that was that the equivalent position within the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council is also at principal officer level. That was the rationale behind the decision we made. We have met with the Oireachtas commission in respect of this on a number of occasions and we have recognised the potential role of this office.

My Department has now issued sanction for this post to be at assistant secretary general level because this is an organisation that I want to see set up and done well. This is not a code for me or my Department's saying that every additional staffing request or grading request made will be agreed to. I have a responsibility to make sure that we handle pay and staffing matters in a consistent manner across all Government Departments. Upon consideration of the issue, I have agreed that the post be at that level and that is the level at which it will be advertised.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I fully agree with the Minister that it should not be code for a free-for-all in terms of every Department getting whatever level it wants, but this is a "Yes, Minister" code to stymie a process that now, for a second year running, has stopped the reform that we all sought to bring in.

We all know the budget process starts now. It will take us several months to carry out an interview process. We will not have the office in place until at least early summer, perhaps the end of June. It effectively means that for a second year running we are not able to do what we set out to do, which was to really get stuck into the budget process. How is it, and I hate to say it, that nothing has been done? I do not know whether the blame lies here with the Oireachtas or with the Minister's Department, but it was agreed that it was critical that this be in the programme for Government. It was written very well in the programme for Government. There was no disagreement on it.

4 o’clock

There was widespread support and the Committee on Budgetary Oversight held plenty of hearings. We went into detail on this and brought in English authorities from a similar office. We did all the work and the process stalled. Nothing happened for six months.

The Minister said things are happening. We are only now advertising the post, following a delay of six months which means we will not be involved in the 2018 budget, be properly set up in time for the review of the capital plan and not involved, as we should be, in pay talks and the complex budgetary issues we are facing. Would the Minister not agree that, no matter whether it is the fault of the Department or Oireachtas, the delay of six months is disgraceful?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I am sure buried somewhere in Deputy Ryan's statement is an acknowledgement of the fact that I have agreed to this post being at the level that was requested. It was appropriate that the matter went through scrutiny and debate. The reason for that was that when the organisation is established, I will then be asked by the House why it is costing a certain amount and has a particular grade of office within it. I have made the decision because of the support I have for the establishment of the institution. The post will be advertised very soon, I am sure, at the level that will allow the organisation to do its work.