Dáil debates

Wednesday, 1 March 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions

Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

1:55 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he or his officials have spoken to the Scottish First Minister since her last visit here in January 2017. [8463/17]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach the economic assessments his Department or any other Department have or which are going to commission in relation to Brexit. [8523/17]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his speech to the Institute of International and European Affairs on 15 February 2017, in particular the reference to the social dimension of the EU respect for human rights, workers' rights and equality; and the way in which he and his Department envisage that these will apply to citizens of the Republic and citizens in Northern Ireland after Article 50 is signed by Prime Minister May. [8771/17]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Brexit last met. [10024/17]

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach if he has instructed his Department or has plans to prepare a White Paper on the Government’s position and policy objectives on Brexit. [10033/17]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach if he has had engagement with the First Minister of Scotland, Ms Nicola Sturgeon, since her visit to Dublin in January 2017. [10131/17]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent address to the Institute of International and European Affairs at the Mansion House on 15 February 2017. [10133/17]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 7, inclusive, together.

The Government has identified its priorities for the negotiation process that lies ahead as our economic and trading arrangements, the Northern Ireland peace process, including Border issues, the common travel area and the future of the European Union. The Government’s preparation is extensive. Important organisational changes have been implemented in Departments and agencies, with additional resources provided in key areas.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, is Question No. 1 being taken in this group?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes, Questions Nos. 1 to 7, inclusive, are being taken together.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question No. 1 relates to discussions with the First Minister of Scotland.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The questions relate to Brexit, the Cabinet committee on Brexit, the preparation of a White Paper and the Scottish First Minister, Ms Sturgeon.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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For Deputy Martin's information, Questions Nos. 1 and 6 are on the same issue.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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My first question is on whether the Taoiseach or his officials have spoken to the Scottish First Minister since her recent visit.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is correct. The second question refers to economic assessments, while the third relates to my speech at the Institute for International and European Affairs on 15 February. They all fit together.

Substantial work has been undertaken across government to identify the key strategic, policy and operational risks of Brexit. A framework of seven work group streams has been established to further deepen the Government’s Brexit analysis across key themes and sectors, including the economy. Advice from all work groups will have an input in the Government's consideration of Brexit negotiation strategy and broader policy actions.

The First Minister of Scotland, Ms Nicola Sturgeon, and I held a meeting last November following the British-Irish Council Summit in Cardiff. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, also met the First Minister during her subsequent visit to Dublin. While I have not had direct contact with her recently, there is ongoing engagement at diplomatic and official levels with the Scottish Government, including through the Consul General's office in Edinburgh and our embassy in London.

The Cabinet committee last met on 26 January and its next meeting is scheduled for 8 March.

In my keynote speech to the Institute of International and European Affairs on Wednesday, I set out in some detail my Government's position on key aspects of Brexit. I spoke of our history, culture, relationships and ability to endure and succeed. I spoke of the strong external forces at work and the major challenges posed by Brexit to our peace and prosperity. I spoke of our future at the heart of the European Union and how our EU membership had furthered social progress in Ireland through the social dimension of the EU. I commented that respect for human rights, workers’ rights and equality reflects a distinctly European set of values which we in Ireland share.

The United Kingdom remains a member of the European Union until such time as it leaves. This means that even when Prime Minister May writes to the European Council to invoke Article 50, there will be no change to the rights and obligations on the UK as an EU member state, including with respect to employment and other rights for citizens, for the two years of the negotiations on the UK exit.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The three questions in this group in my name deal with separate issues. I will try to get through them as quickly as possible. On contact with the Scottish First Minister, while the British Government has established extensive consultation processes with the devolved administrations, there is so far no evidence that the concerns of these administrations are being listened to in any way. Representatives at the civic dialogue meeting on Friday last sent out a strong message that the collapse of the Northern Ireland Executive has left Northern Ireland without a coherent voice at a crucial time in Europe's history, in particular with regard to Brexit. Unlike the Northern Ireland Executive, the Scottish Executive has been very clear. While Ireland is not in a position to make demands on behalf of Scotland, when the United Kingdom Government refuses to seek any mitigation of a hard Brexit for its devolved administrations we can speak up for the principle that Scotland should be speedily admitted to the European Union if it seeks membership. Unlike some parties in Northern Ireland, there is nothing opportunistic about the Scottish National Party's long-term commitment to the European Union. The SNP has been a euro-positive party for more than four decades and Scotland has shown time and again that it values its European identity. Will the Taoiseach ensure that our formal contacts with Scotland will increase during the Brexit negotiations and in subsequent years?

On the economic assessment of Brexit, the Taoiseach stated at the all-Ireland dialogue on Friday that studies have been commissioned. Why has the Government not asked for input into the content of these studies? It would have been reasonable to request suggestions for specific scenarios and mitigation ideas. Have detailed sectoral assessments been completed and, if so, are they being used to shape our negotiating position on fiscal policy? Will the Taoiseach provide us with such sectoral analyses as may have been undertaken by his Department?

Will the Government publish a White Paper on Brexit? The Taoiseach appeared to suggest last week that a White Paper would be done. Will he detail the structure of any proposed White Paper?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On the Deputy's final question, we cannot answer all the questions that are being asked until the British Government issues its letter of intent to leave the European Union. As soon as the letter has been written, sent to the Commission and enters the public domain, the Government will respond. We have done analysis on the 14 sectoral areas and a briefing on these is available to the Deputy at any time. We can also supply whatever information he wishes to have. The Government will respond clearly and directly once it becomes clear what relationship Britain is seeking in respect of trading relations with the European Union and, by implication, Ireland.

We have set out our priorities and outlined them on many occasions. I agree with Deputy Martin in the sense that business people from Northern Ireland who spoke to me at the civic forum in Dublin Castle were very pleased to make direct contact because they know what are the implications of negotiations being conducted from the side of the 27 EU member states. Some are very concerned about their future livelihood and income base. For example, farmers currently receive support through the Common Agricultural Policy and they are very concerned about what will happen in the meantime. Others made a case in respect of INTERREG and PEACE funding and cross-Border activities.

As we have already pointed out in respect of major infrastructure such as the A5, which is the road link to Derry, in the review of our capital programme we must make arrangements on an all-island basis. We have been discussing the possibility of some all-island solutions, for example, in areas such as water, energy and animal health.

While we clearly do not speak for Scotland, we have close connections with the First Minister of Scotland, Ms Sturgeon, and between the embassy here and our business location in Scotland. We will enhance those contacts. I have already made the case in Brussels in respect of Scotland's wish to remain a member of the European Union. A second vote on independence is a matter between the Scottish Parliament and Downing Street.

2:05 pm

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply but it did not clarify when the Cabinet Committee on Brexit last met.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Cabinet committee last met on 26 January 2017 and the next meeting is scheduled for 8 March 2017.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach is probably aware that as we speak Jean-Claude Juncker is presenting a White Paper on the future of Europe in the context of Brexit to the European Parliament and, I assume, given the details available on social media, also in the context of the advent of President Trump in the United States. In regard to the meeting which the Taoiseach has already indicated he will be attending at the end of May, as I understand it some of the headings which Mr. Juncker proposes to lay out for discussion at that meeting include: carrying on - not much change; nothing but the Single Market; those who want more do more; doing less more efficiently; and doing much more together. The Taoiseach has been batting the ball back and forward across the Chamber in regard to the Government's White Paper. Over the last two weeks, unless I totally misunderstood the tenor of the Taoiseach's comments, he indicated that he would produce and publish an Irish Water Paper. Yesterday, I asked the Taoiseach about strategy and he responded by telling me about his priorities. Strategy is about how one proposes to achieve objectives.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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When the Taoiseach met recently with Mr. Juncker did he discuss his proposed White Paper? Did he offer the Taoiseach a briefing on the likely contents of that paper and, if so, why has the Taoiseach not shared that with us?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must conclude.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach is famous for talking to people in the street. People are tremendously interested in Brexit.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are out of time, Deputy.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Anybody who is out talking to people knows that Brexit is the key issue for them. People are worried and have doubts about their hopes and expectations for their future and that of their families. Perhaps the Taoiseach would level with us on the status of Mr. Juncker's White Paper and on whether Ireland has a ready response to it.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time has expired. We are operating to a very tight timeline. If Members do not stick to the allocated time then not everybody who has a question will get in.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Let us not get our colours mixed up. A Green Paper is a statement of aspiration. A White Paper is a statement of intent, that is, how it is intended to implement what is set out in the Green Paper. I cannot draft a White Paper without knowing what it is that I am expected to do. I cannot know that until I have clarity on what the British Government is looking for in respect of its relationship with the European Union, nor can Mr. Juncker.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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He is apparently trotting into the Parliament with a White Paper as we speak.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We discussed this in Bratislava and Valletta and I discussed it with Mr. Juncker the other day. As of now, the European agenda is very clear: this Single Market, the digital single market, the capital markets and implementation over the next number of years of the report of the Presidents. That is the European agenda. In the meantime, Brexit has arisen. Article 50 has not been triggered and negotiations have not yet commenced. Mr. Barnier's task force is gathering information. In terms of Ireland, we have done an extraordinary amount of work in respect of options to be considered. I cannot present to the leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Howlin, a White Paper which sets out what we intend to do because the decision in respect of the trading relationship, which is crucial for the Border and the links we have with Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom, is also crucial in respect of our position as a member of the European Union into the future and how that will impact on that relationship.

As I said already, once Article 50 is triggered we can then respond with much greater clarity as to how we intend to achieve our priorities, which again are jobs, our citizens, our economy, our Border, our peace process, our common travel area and our future as a member of the European Union.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It seems to me that there are two separate but vital issues for Ireland in this regard. We know that the United Kingdom is leaving the European Union. The first priority is a settlement in respect of that divorce that is in the best interests of the economic wellbeing of the island of Ireland and its people. The second issue is what will be the future of Europe of 27. In other words, what pathway are we going on after the exit of the United Kingdom? It is clear that President Juncker is putting out his blueprint in terms of options for the latter. What is Ireland's view? What is the future of the 27 that we envisage? When will we have that discussion and what is the view of the Taoiseach on this issue? In regard to mitigation of the settlement alluded to in relation to the first priority, I am sure the Taoiseach will be aware of Vice President Timmerman's question around what is Ireland's ask so that it can be shaped in the negotiating position of the 27 remaining members.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Yesterday, the Scottish First Minister, Ms Nicola Sturgeon, warned that the sheer intransigence of the British Government over Brexit could lead to a second Scottish independence referendum. I hope that happens and that the result will reflect the Scottish desire for independence. The First Minister's comments are based on the dismissive attitude of the British Government in regard to devolved assemblies and administrations. In January, the Taoiseach met the First Minister. Has he spoken to her since and does he intend to speak to her prior to next week's Cabinet Committee on Brexit given the commonality between much of what is happening to the Scottish and will happen in the North?

I take this opportunity to correct a statement made earlier by the Fianna Fáil leader. The SNP did not always hold the same position in regard to the EU. In 1975, it sought to withdraw but now it seeks membership of the EU, but a substantially different EU to the current one, in respect of which it has major reform proposals.

In regard to the Taoiseach's comments regarding white papers, green papers and so on, the British Government has made its decision clear. It is withdrawing from Europe. Beyond that, it has stated on a number of occasions what exactly that withdrawal will mean. Is a White Paper being prepared to react to the already declared position of the British Government under Prime Minister, Theresa May? Not to do so would be a major failure.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Howlin raised an important point of the divorce proceedings that have to take place in the context of Brexit and what Britain wants. The Prime Minister has said, and I agree, that the retention of as close as possible a trading relationship as currently exists is in our best interests. Deputy Howlin spoke about Ireland continuing as a member of the European Union, which it will do. This has been endorsed on many occasions by the Irish people. We want to continue our membership of the EU, which has transformed the country into an outward looking, global orientated country with many opportunities for trade and so on. The Deputy also spoke about the future of the 27. The Deputy will be aware of the upcoming elections in The Netherlands, France, Germany and possible elections in Italy. These may well change the future of the European Union as we know it. We do not have any control over the electorates in those countries in terms of who they wish to elect or what form of government they intend to elect.

Ireland is committed to the euro and the future of the European Union and this means an expansion of the policies currently in place to ensure future opportunities for trade, investment, productive growth, output and jobs. I have not spoken to First Minister Nicola Sturgeon since January. It is my intention to speak to her before the next meeting in Brussels.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh is not entirely accurate when he says the British have been clear about their intentions. They have been clear on wanting to leave the European Union and the Single Market, but they are not quite so clear in respect of how they see their future trading relationships. In her Lancaster House speech, the Prime Minister said she did not have a predisposition in this regard. That is bound to have an acute bearing on what the relationship will be in future.

2:15 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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They want to have their cake and eat it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If a state is a full member of the customs union, it is not in a position to do bespoke trade deals with other countries, which is what the Prime Minister has said she would like Britain to be able to do. Associate members of the customs union also have a difficulty in that Europe has made it perfectly clear there will not be any cherry-picking of criteria for inclusion. The British authorities have not yet made their position clear in this regard, but we expect that clarity to come when the Prime Minister issues the letter of intent to withdraw and triggers Article 50 of the treaty. There has been clarity from the UK in some areas but not in others. We will respond very clearly and directly once the picture of what it is we have to contend with becomes clear.