Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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41. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs her views on the sustainability of zero to three years services in the community setting in view of changes in regulations; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7091/17]

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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There are many people watching and I believe we could have had a very different session. I wish to express my dismay and concern about revelations regarding Tusla. I hope that we have the opportunity to discuss this later with the Minister and the CEO of Tusla.

My question relates to zero to three year old services. I have raised this with the Minister. There are obviously a number of issues that have arisen recently around changes in regulations, capitation and the rest of it. These have created particular difficulties for the sustainability of zero to three year old services.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I acknowledge the Deputy's initial comments. I am very willing and happy to participate in any of the decisions that the business committee is now engaged in. With regard to the parliamentary question, I am aware that providing care for children below the age of three results in higher costs to services than caring for older children. This is as a result of the legally required adult-child ratio, which is as low as 1:3 in the case of the youngest children.

Some services providing this care have been impacted by the full implementation of the Child Care Act 1991 (Early Years Services) Regulations 2016, which requires that all staff should hold a minimum FETAC level 5 qualification when working directly with children. In several cases, services have been utilising staff working on community employment, CE, schemes to count towards their required ratios. Under the regulations, this will only be allowed when the individual in question has the necessary qualification.

In order to assist the services in addressing this challenge, I recently announced that €1 million of additional funding will be made available to child care providers who have been facilitating the training of community employment scheme workers to ensure that regulatory changes do not impact on service delivery or the availability of childcare places.

In preparation for the implementation of the Child Care Act 1991 (Early Years Services) Regulations 2016, which the Deputy's question refers to, child care committees Ireland were commissioned by my Department to investigate the impact of new child care regulations on community childcare providers.

This research indicated that the vast majority of services would not face financial hardship as a result of changes required under the regulations. However, it did find that some services had come to rely on community employment scheme workers and I determined that these services should be provided additional funding to enable them to recruit and retain qualified staff to work alongside their CE scheme participants.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I acknowledge the Minister's response, but I do not believe that that €1 million is going to cut it. I attended a meeting yesterday in Cork. It was entitled "perfect storm". I believe it was aptly named because it was about the combination of the changes in regulation, the new child care scheme and the pressures on the community sector generally. It related specifically to 13 services in and around Cork city and 349 children attending those. As the Minister will be aware, I am on the board of management of one of those as a non-executive director. It is an issue of very particular concern. They believe that those 13 services in Cork city will all be closed by September 2018. This is obviously not just about Cork, it is a nationwide issue. The Minister is aware of the benefits of this in terms of early intervention. Clearly, there is a need for a recognition of how we fund these services for the complex additional needs that many children attending these services have. For example, in Cork, 26% of the children attending those community services have an additional need and 24% are awaiting diagnosis. There needs to be a financial recognition of that additional need.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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As Deputy Ó Laoghaire is well aware, we have had these discussions extensively with regard to concerns that he has raised about centres in his own constituency. We have been attentive to those and I have been specifically concerned about the centres he has raised. I know that resources are required. The Deputy questioned that €1 million figure. However, we did set aside a significant sum of money in order to ensure that the concerns the Deputy raises are going to be addressed. As a result, I have made available with that money up to €2,000 for services to assist with the recruitment process or to provide expert support in HR management. I will make sufficient additional money available to each service after analysis of their individual financial situation to ensure that they can fully meet the cost of these staff until September 2017. After this time, these services should be in a position to fund these places through their own income, but this will be kept under review. No service will be forced to close.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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To an extent, that last point is the crux of the matter.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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It is.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is possible for the Department to provide additional funding for these settings to take on additional staff. However, maintaining them through their own income either involves cutting some services or increasing fees. These are services that service disadvantaged areas. If there is not going to be a commitment to an additional long-term funding for additional places, it will not be sustainable for those settings to maintain those staff and settings. They will focus on ECCE and ACS schemes. Some of the zero to three years services will lose out. Will the Minister introduce sustainability measures for the long term to ensure that services will remain open? Will she take into account the additional need per child for increased payments? Will she meet with myself and the other Deputies from my constituency to discuss the specific issue that was raised at that meeting yesterday?

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I will answer the Deputy's last question first. I would be happy to hold a meeting such as the one he requests. Second, with regard to funding for sustainability measures in a long-term capacity, the answer is "yes". The setting aside of €1 million for budget 2017 indicates the initial commitment and the ways in which my Department and I, in the discussions, try to support the services to ensure they do not have to close and that they can maintain the commitment to communities, particularly communities of disadvantage. There is no question that we do not have that commitment. However, the commitment to sustainability comes in the establishment of the affordable child care scheme and my intention is to ensure, in budget 2018, that we get more moneys into that sustainable child care scheme, always with a focus on other communities where people with disadvantage live.