Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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33. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport his plans to ensure that preconditions regarding reductions in staff costs are removed in Bus Éireann; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6197/17]

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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I hate to say it but this question is also on the issue of Bus Éireann. It is about the issue of preconditions in negotiations. The Minister said in his response to Deputy Barry that he was opposed to any preconditions in the current crisis at Bus Éireann. Given that is his stated objective, what does he believe he can do to facilitate the removal of such preconditions, as currently it is the workers who are substantially paying a heavy price for the crisis?

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I certainly cannot say the same thing to Deputy Clare Daly as I said to Deputy Barry. At least she takes a different angle in respect of the matter. I will not do what she would like me to do. I understand that people maintain that one person's precondition is another person's statement prior to getting down to talks. What I will do is ask both parties to be realistic and request that they not play with words or interpret one or the other's statements as preconditions. They know and I know that they will have to talk without preconditions sooner or later. To ensure that they are under no illusions, I say to them this: they are on their own on this one. They must behave like grown-ups, get in there and settle it. The machinery of the State is available. I will make it available to them 24-7 to resolve this problem, which, as many people eloquently outlined just recently, will cause untold damage, harm and hardship to many innocent travellers, innocent people in rural communities, the workforce and others. I will make that machinery available but I will not be proactive in policy areas in this situation.

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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The reality is that workers at Bus Éireann provide 40,000 services per week. They have had to endure essentially a pay freeze since 2009, when they were actually promised a pay increase of 6%. I note the Minister's statement that nobody should go into these talks with preconditions, but the reality is that Bus Éireann management has said that much of the savings it seeks will come off the back of the workforce. I wish to talk to the Minister about this workforce through the eyes of one of my constituents. He says that he is paid €624 per week, gross, for a 39-hour week. However, anybody employed after him is only paid €539. Some working days are in excess of 12 hours, rarely all of it paid time. There can be unpaid breaks of up to two hours and 45 minutes during the day. These could be well away from the home depot. They work about nine Sundays in every 14 shifts, which is a concern in terms of rest times, bringing back buses and so on. To unilaterally impose cuts on what are already hard-pressed working conditions is unacceptable. While I note the Minister's statement that good sense should prevail, is there anything he thinks he could do to facilitate some type of forum? He says the industrial machinery is there but it is not adequate to get over this notion of preconditions, which is seriously unhelpful.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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Perhaps I can be helpful in some ways. I accept that, in policy terms, the Government has a role as the shareholder. I have said this before and I will say it again if it is at all helpful: I will not, prior to this dispute being settled, assemble a forum because it would only become dragged into the dispute. However, I make it quite clear that once the industrial relations dispute is over, I am very happy to meet all the stakeholders to discuss what they maintain are the policy issues, which are undoubtedly felt deeply, with which many people have sympathy and to which the stakeholders allude so often. I will not do so during the dispute, but afterwards.

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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I think that will be absolutely necessary. The backdrop to the current crisis and the cuts that are set to be imposed on workers is, in part, a result of the reduction in the public service obligation, PSO, subvention, one of the key reasons Bus Éireann has run into problems. While the Minister has said openly that he does not believe either party should be involved in going into this immediate crisis with preconditions - I think all of us would echo that - they need to get together and try to sort it out. In the longer term, we absolutely need a forum to provide a platform that will ensure some sort of long-term vision and plan for all our public transport which can be put in place without the constant threat to the wages and conditions of bus workers, who are pretty much hard up against it. They do not live luxurious lifestyles or anything like that, and the prospect for them and their families of this crisis is not helpful. I think the longer-term facilitation would be welcome, but in the meantime the Minister could and should do what he can in the face of the immediate crisis.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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Let me make this clear. It probably would be helpful. I am not sure of the merits of it but I am prepared to give it a try. I am certainly not, as some people would portray me, in any way opposed to meeting the unions. I am very happy to meet them but not in the midst of an industrial dispute for reasons to which I have already alluded. Let me make it clear to them again that they should come along, we should meet, they should go to the WRC or the Labour Court tomorrow, meet the management and settle their problems. I will meet them the day after and will get all the stakeholders together if they so wish and we will discuss those other issues which are not pertinent to the industrial dispute. If that helps, that is fine. I will be interested in their response.