Dáil debates

Tuesday, 7 February 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions

Constitutional Amendments

4:00 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach his plans to hold constitutional referenda during 2017. [3241/17]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach his plans in respect of holding constitutional referenda during 2017. [4069/17]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach his plans for constitutional referenda during 2017. [5815/17]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 6, inclusive, together.

Under the programme for partnership Government, the Government is committed to holding constitutional referenda on the following matters: Article 41.2.1, regarding a "woman's life within the home"; Article 40.6.1, on the offence of blasphemy; Ireland's participation in the Unified Patent Court; and giving the office of Ceann Comhairle constitutional standing.

Three of these proposals arise from the Constitutional Convention, which sat from January 2013 to February 2014. The Government has responded to all of the convention's reports. A recommendation of particular importance relates to amending the Constitution to give citizens resident outside the State the right to vote in presidential elections. This is under detailed consideration by the Government.

In addition, the programme for partnership Government committed the Government to establish a Citizens' Assembly with a mandate to look at a limited number of key issues, including the eighth amendment, fixed-term parliaments and the manner in which referenda are held. In July 2016, the Houses of the Oireachtas approved the establishment of the assembly. The assembly is chaired by a Supreme Court judge, Ms Justice Mary Laffoy. It operates independently of the Government and will report direct to the Houses of the Oireachtas. The assembly has begun consideration of its first topic, the eighth amendment.

The programme for partnership Government also states that on foot of the recommendation of the banking inquiry, the Government will seek a review of the powers of Oireachtas committees in conducting inquiries and, based on this review, will consider whether there should be a constitutional referendum to strengthen committees' powers.

As regards timing, no decision has been made on this as yet. As I have previously said in the House, before any referendum would be scheduled I would bring a proposal to Government and hold discussions with Opposition leaders.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Does the Taoiseach envisage a referendum being held during 2017? In particular, is it envisaged that a referendum on the outcome of the Citizens' Assembly's report on the eighth amendment would be held this year? Does he have an update on when the assembly's first report is due? Has the Taoiseach discussed with his Brexit team and the Attorney General whether, in any circumstances that are envisaged, the outcome of the Brexit negotiations at European level would require a constitutional referendum in this State? Will he brief the House on the likelihood of that? Finally, the Taoiseach mentioned the programme for Government's commitment to hold a referendum on a woman's life within the home. Will that proposal be advanced within the next 18 months or so?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As I said to the Deputy previously, the Government has not considered holding any referendum in 2017 as yet.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Does the Taoiseach envisage it?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The four matters that were approved by the Government for the holding of referenda were from the previous convention. The Citizens' Assembly will present its report before the end of June. I do not know what the report will contain in terms of recommendations or proposals. That is a matter for the assembly and the sole member, Ms Justice Laffoy. They operate independently of the Government and will report directly to the Houses of the Oireachtas.

I do not envisage that there will be any transfer of power from the sovereign Irish State to the European Union, so I do not envisage that there will be a need for a constitutional referendum.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There will be no new institutions or no new bodies.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not expect that there will be a need for a constitutional referendum from that perspective. Clearly, the negotiations have not started yet but from my understanding I do not expect it to be the case.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Constitutional Convention made 38 recommendations and referenda were held on two. There is no clarity in the Taoiseach's reply today as to whether there will be a referendum this year. I wish to tease that out a little. The Taoiseach said that the issue of citizens living outside the State is under detailed consideration by the Government. What does "detailed consideration" mean?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is better than consideration.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is quite straightforward. Most other states give their citizens who are not resident in the state the right to vote. Given that the Taoiseach is due to visit the USA and that he will be raising the concerns about the status of citizens of this State who are exiled there, it would be nice if he could tell them that the Government is prepared to uphold their right to vote at home in presidential elections. Given the consequences of Brexit, it is a fact that citizens from the North have the right to Irish citizenship and, as a consequence, European citizenship. Whatever happens with regard to the Taoiseach's failure to uphold the rights of the people who voted to remain within the European Union and given his failure thus far to argue for a special designated status for the North within the European Union, surely it would be useful if he acted on the recommendation of the Constitutional Convention and gave us a sense of when the detailed consideration by the Government of this proposition will be concluded.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The phrase, "detailed consideration" means being examined properly. It is not as simple as saying we will give everybody who is an Irish citizen the right to vote in presidential elections. Potentially, a very substantial number of people worldwide could claim Irish citizenship. Do we extend the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Acts to a second or third generation who could claim Irish citizenship?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Passport holders.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We must examine it in a practical effective way, which would allow people outside this jurisdiction the opportunity and right to vote in a presidential election. When I say it is receiving detailed consideration I mean that it is being examined from a number of points of view to see what is possible. I would like to be in a position to be able to deal with this, because it has been a commitment for a long time. The Deputy is well aware that it is not as simple as saying that everybody who is a citizen, who is entitled to be a citizen or who could claim citizenship will be entitled to vote in a presidential election. Detailed consideration therefore means proper and minute examination, and I will report to the House in due course.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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People Before Profit and the Anti-Austerity Alliance put forward a Bill proposing an immediate referendum on repealing the eighth amendment. The Government and Fianna Fáil voted it down last year on the basis that they would allow the Citizens' Assembly to examine the issue. Our view was that delaying a referendum and batting this issue to the Citizens' Assembly was a completely wrong-headed, misguided decision at best and at worst a cynical delaying tactic that puts the lives and safety of many women at risk.

At the weekend, we heard there had been 13,500 submissions to this small group of people. While I do not doubt their sincerity, they are a small, unrepresentative group of 100 people dealing with a deluge of submissions which they said were totally unhelpful and useless. For the most part, they were from the anti-abortion movement, which swamped the Citizens' Assembly with its perspective.

This is where the Taoiseach's decision has led us. It is breathing life back into the anti-choice movement and allowing it to try to interfere with the deliberations on the issue. It is happening because the Taoiseach has abdicated responsibility for what should be a democratic decision made by all the people in the country in favour of 100 people. It is delaying the issue and consequently endangering the lives, health and safety of women, 3,000 of whom have travelled abroad for abortions since June. Is it not time to commit to having the referendum? If the Citizens' Assembly recommends having a referendum, is the Taoiseach prepared to hold the referendum in June or later in 2017?

4:10 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has got ahead of himself. I presume his view is that of the Anti-Austerity Alliance. I do not share his view. He said the Citizen's Assembly was a cynical delaying tactic. It is no such thing. It does not involve an unrepresentative group, as the Deputy suggested. The people who serve on the Citizens' Assembly were carefully and independently chosen by age, gender and region and they are contributing very valuable information to it. The fact that more than 13,000 people decided to send their views for public assimilation and analysis speaks of the importance of the matter.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Citizens' Assembly members said it was useless.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy asked me to commit to a referendum before the end of June. We will not have the report from the Citizens' Assembly until the end of June. As the Deputy knows, any referendum requires a long lead-in time in order for people to understand the issues at stake, which must be answered by a yes or no question.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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More delay.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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A constant problem in the previous Dáil was how the Government failed to consult widely about the schedule of referendums and abandoned the policy of preparing detailed reports well in advance of the formal proposal being debated. In the referendums on Oireachtas inquiries and the abolition of the Seanad, the lack of a White Paper was exposed during the campaigns. In any future referendums, will the Government give an assurance that, with the exception of unforeseen emergencies, it will bring a referendum proposal to the House only when there is enough time to debate it and it is accompanied by a detailed White Paper? Will he ensure the Referendum Commission is given ample time to explain to people what is involved in a particular referendum?

When the Citizens' Assembly finishes its work there will remain significant steps before we can take a vote. Given that the Citizens' Assembly has already indicated it will recommend a change, every specific recommendation involves some form of legislation. Will the Taoiseach give an assurance that the Government will not attempt to present a proposal and then try to limit discussion? There are already discussions under way at the Business Committee as to whether a special Oireachtas committee should be established or whether the Oireachtas Committee on Health should be tasked with reviewing the recommendations of the Citizens' Assembly. A special committee would be more prudent, given the sensitivities and complexities of what is involved. It could give its exclusive focus to whatever recommendations emanate from the Citizens' Assembly.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I share the view that it should be a special committee. In respect of any referendum, the Referendum Commission will have adequate resources and time to do its job. In the event of a referendum being held, proper background documentation, such as a White Paper, will be prepared. I will ensure there will be ample opportunity for discussion on whatever the subject might be.