Noel Rock (Dublin North West, Fine Gael)
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When it comes to professionalised ticket touting in this country, it is very clear that there is a serious problem. Deputy Donnelly and I have drafted legislation in this direction but here we will outline the problem and the solution. There are three simple rules which could be imposed on Ticketmaster or other primary sellers of tickets which would prevent industrialised, professionalised ticket touting: limit the number of tickets an individual can buy, use the original debit or credit card on entry to a venue, and match the name on the ticket with a photo ID. This was not done for the recent U2 concert and is generally not done.

It appears that Ticketmaster, which owns the leading secondary selling website, Seatwave, and other primary sellers, is very comfortable with as many tickets as possible going on to Seatwave and does not restrict the primary sales of tickets in a reasonable way. The commission for each secondary sale is in the region of between 15% and 20%. The UK commissioned a substantial and comprehensive report into this as recently as last year and Belgium introduced legislation on this matter which was very effective.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I congratulate Deputy Rock on tabling the legislation and I am very happy to co-sponsor it with him. There are numerous cases of this going on, the latest being a few days ago with tickets for the U2 concert. There was reselling in bulk at the very same time that the monopoly seller, Ticketmaster, was sold out. We are not dealing with people who buy a few tickets, then decide they are not going to the concert and sell them. This is an organised industry with potentially very serious profits, bulk purchasing tickets from a monopoly seller.

In the past two days the Minister has published a consultation process. Are we looking at cartel behaviour? Are people violating anti-trust laws or consumer protection laws? Do companies like Seatwave get privileged access to Ticketmaster tickets and so forth? We are dealing not only with important consumer protection but I would like to know, and I have written to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, to find out, whether any of these companies are violating existing laws.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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People in Ireland are being exploited in the worst form when it comes to ticket touting. There are people making their sole income from selling tickets to matches, concerts etc. at an outrageous cost, legally, on Ticketmaster's partner website, Seatwave. As an example, tickets for the upcoming Coldplay concert in Croke Park on 8 July 2017 went on sale on Ticketmaster for between €69 and €144. These tickets sold out in a matter of minutes but the tickets started reappearing on Ticketmaster's partner website, Seatwave, from people who purchased them from Ticketmaster and the price range on 20 January was €200 to €900 or €1,000. This is nothing short of a disgrace and the worst form of ticket touting. I have no problem with someone who cannot attend a concert because of illness or any other problem selling their tickets online at face value. When people are making their sole income from this type of business it is ridiculous and I call on the Government to take immediate action on this issue.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputies Rock, Donnelly and Michael Healy-Rae for the work they have done and for raising this issue here. I share the concern of the Deputies and the public about the resale of tickets for major entertainment or sporting events at inflated prices. Although this concern is not new, it has been highlighted by the resale of tickets for the U2 and Coldplay concerts next July.

I met the Minister of State with responsibility for tourism and sport, Deputy O'Donovan, in late October in response to the public concern over the issue. My Department then undertook an examination of the primary and secondary ticket markets and the measures taken, or not taken, in other countries to regulate these markets.

That examination led to the detailed consultation paper which I issued last Friday together with the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, and the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan. The consultation paper sets out a range of possible measures that might be taken to ensure fans do not have to pay exorbitant prices to attend major entertainment or sporting events. Some of these measures would be the responsibility of the parties involved in the organisation of events or in the primary and secondary ticket markets. Other measures would be the responsibility of the Government. I encourage all interested parties, including Members of this House, to respond to our consultation paper. The possible options for future action, including legislation to regulate the resale of tickets, will be fully assessed following the consultation process. The consultation paper clarifies that such legislation could take a number of forms. It is important that any such legislation does not cause ticket resale to be driven underground and away from the established marketplaces which at least offer guarantees to ticket buyers. The online market for tickets to major events is essentially borderless in nature. Most EU member states do not ban or regulate the resale of tickets. Irish consumers will not be better off if legislation here causes ticket resale to be diverted to countries that permit it.

Noel Rock (Dublin North West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for her response. Given the plurality of comprehensive reports that are available, and in light of the acknowledgement from the Department when it launched its consultation on this issue last Friday that these problems are fundamentally the same from country to country, it seems that the launch of a new consultation process is perhaps not necessary. Nevertheless, I welcome the Minister's comments and her commitment to taking on board the concerns of the various players, including the industry and Deputies like Deputy Donnelly and me. We will continue to work on our Private Members' Bill because we feel this important issue is worthy of further public attention and scrutiny. I had a meeting on this matter today with an Irish company that has developed technology that has the potential to prevent ticket touting. Such technological innovations are now possible. I welcome the further pursuit of such avenues in the future. I believe they need to be matched with legislative action. That is why I am proud to continue to work with Deputy Donnelly on this matter.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Minister for her response. I think the key word she used was "inflated" because we are not talking about tickets going on sale for €70 and being resold for €85. We are talking about €70 tickets being bought en masseby companies that may or may not have privileged access to the monopoly seller and then being resold not for €80 but for €1,000.

I agree with Deputy Rock with regard to consultation. I am not entirely sure that a lengthy period of consultation is required. If we use the legislative process, we could deal with many of the submissions on Report Stage. The Minister is taking the consultation approach. What are the timelines for the consultation process? When will we be able to debate the findings on the floor of the House? What can be done by the Government in the short term? We all know that consultation processes and follow-up legislative processes can take time. I wrote to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission last week to ascertain whether any illegality is happening at present. I would like the Minister to give us her thoughts on what she and her Government colleagues can do now to send these companies a clear message in the short term that this sort of behaviour needs to stop.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for her response. I would like to highlight another aspect of this issue. I thank Deputies Rock and Donnelly for their excellent work. The Minister has been joined by the Tánaiste. When the US authorities were unable to get Al Capone for murder, they got him for taxes. Are those who are involved on a professional basis or otherwise in ticket touting in Ireland paying tax on their exorbitant profits? The U2 tickets that sold out in six minutes were being sold for more than €1,000 afterwards. Will those involved pay tax on their exorbitant profits? Everybody else in the country has to pay tax. Are they paying tax? I suggest that if we cannot get them in one way, we might be able to get them in another way. I remind the House that when Al Capone could not be got for one thing, he was got for taxes. This is terribly important because it is wrong for people who want to go to a sporting event or a concert to be fleeced and robbed in this fashion. It is another form of daylight robbery.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputies for their contributions to this debate. I understand the reasons they and the public are anxious to see action on this issue. If legislation is to be introduced to regulate ticket resale, an established procedure must be followed. This includes the preparation of a regulatory impact analysis. In Ireland, as in other countries, public consultation is an integral part of the impact analysis process. It is relatively easy to enact legislation, but it is more difficult to ensure that legislation will be effective.

Anyone who takes the time to read the consultation paper will see that the issues around ticket resale are neither simple not straightforward, as the Deputies have mentioned. The organisation of major events, and the sale or resale of tickets to those events, involves a number of parties with different interests. The record of legislative efforts to regulate ticket resale in other countries is mixed at best. Expert reviews on this issue in a number of countries, including the UK, have concluded that legislative regulation is not warranted or is unlikely to be effective. We cannot ignore these considerations in the clamour for action. My aim is to ensure whatever action is ultimately taken will make a material contribution to ensuring fairer access to tickets for consumers.

I am aware that a number of popular solutions were proposed in the document I published. Reference has been made to the possibility of making greater use of personalised and paperless tickets. It has been suggested that event organisers and primary ticket sellers could provide a facility for ticket buyers to return tickets they are unable to use and, if those tickets are resold, to be refunded at face value. Perhaps there is a need for greater readiness on the part of ticket buyers to resell tickets at face value. Greater co-operation from the secondary marketplace would help event organisers to identify people who are reselling tickets in breach of contractual prohibitions on resale and on multiple purchases.