Dáil debates

Wednesday, 14 December 2016

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed) - Priority Questions

Child Care Services Provision

2:50 pm

Photo of Anne RabbitteAnne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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26. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs the changes to existing legislation that the introduction of the new affordable child care scheme will necessitate; the timeframe that she plans to use to make these changes to the legislation; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [40303/16]

Photo of Anne RabbitteAnne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Minister to outline the changes in legislation that the introduction of the new affordable child care scheme will necessitate; the timeframe that she plans to use to make these changes to the legislation; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

Photo of Katherine ZapponeKatherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I am working to introduce a new affordable child care scheme from next September which will provide financial support for parents towards the cost of child care. The new scheme will provide for both universal and targeted subsidies towards the cost of child care. It will replace the existing targeted child care programmes with a single, streamlined and more user-friendly scheme. I want it to provide "wraparound" care for pre-school and school age children.

To ensure good governance, the affordable child care scheme will be put on a statutory basis. The necessary primary legislation will encompass clear and detailed rules for the assessment of income and the provision of subsidies, clearly prescribed authority in regard to the sharing of data across public bodies and administrators, comprehensive provisions regarding the powers and obligations of the scheme administrator and high level requirements and associated powers of sanction regarding scheme participation by child care providers.

The primary legislation will take account of all necessary amendments to existing legislation. As part of this, the use of the PPS number and data sharing across public bodies and agencies will be supported through legislation and formal data sharing agreements. Officials in my Department are currently drafting the heads of Bill for the scheme, which are at an advanced stage. I intend to bring the heads of Bill to Government for approval early in the new year and thereafter the precise timeframe for the drafting of the legislation and its passage through the Houses will be subject to the usual considerations regarding scheduling and allocation of parliamentary time. My objective is that legislation will be in place in early summer and I look forward to piloting this important scheme through both Houses.

3:00 pm

Photo of Anne RabbitteAnne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge the persistence and determination of the Minister and her team in bringing forward the affordable child care scheme. However, I am a realistic individual and I note all the Departments the Minister must bring legislation through. The Minister is looking at changing the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 which is to work with the personal public service, PPS, number. When one considers that more than 500,000 parents have not used or signed up to availing of the PPS number, the Minister will have to work with the Department of Social Protection, the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs. The Minister is looking at bringing through legislation for a proper IT system in order that parents wanting to avail of it can do all this online, and she plans to have all that done by August. I wish the Minister well in her endeavours in delivering that. As I stated at the beginning, I am a realist and I can see many problems.

Photo of Katherine ZapponeKatherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I thank Deputy Rabbitte. I would be a pragmatic idealist. I recognise that the timeframe for introducing the scheme is ambitious, not least because the legislation, as the Deputy states and as I have indicated, will have to be in place before the scheme can commence. Officials in my Department are working to ensure the heads of the Bill will be brought forward for Government approval in the new year.

A key piece of the existing legislation that needs to be examined, and this is what the Deputy refers to, is the Social Welfare Consolidation Act of 2005 because that specifies the bodies that can use PPS numbers and the purpose for which they can be shared. In the process of bringing in the affordable child care legislation, we will look at that Act to determine any necessary amendments.

The reason the PPS numbers and data sharing arrangements are so critical is an online IT application system will be developed that will allow the parents to apply for subsidies online by entering these numbers and other details, such as their work and training status. As the Deputy indicates, that takes several Departments to work together. We need to be ambitious.

Photo of Anne RabbitteAnne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Going back to what I said at the beginning, there are 500,000 parents who did not sign up with the Department of Education and Skills by forwarding on the PPS number. People have a reservation about releasing their PPS number because it is private, confidential and personal information. We saw what happened with Irish Water where a U-turn had to be made in 2014 on the release of PPS numbers.

I accept the Minister is bringing through a system where the parent can do it at home and all online, but surely the governance for the child care provider will involve the parent providing information to the provider to cross-check that the parent has submitted the application in order for the provider to get his or her funding. It will revolve around the PPS number. Would the Minister agree that there will be concerns around the use of the PPS number?

Photo of Katherine ZapponeKatherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I am glad Deputy Rabbitte raised this. It is an important consideration. With regard to the rationale for using the PPS number, it is for a particular benefit - that is what is critical here - in order that we can use it to link to the Department of Social Protection and Revenue Commissioners data, thereby allowing a much faster and more user-friendly service for parents, overcoming the need for them to have to submit documentary evidence and reducing administrative burden.

The PPS number is already used as an identifier within many schemes, including the current targeted child care subsidisation scheme. The focus here is on us looking to use it to provide a benefit, for that to be more user-friendly and in order that parents ultimately can access what we are offering as a subsidy, and it is easier for the providers as well.

On the issue of legal advice on this, the Department's internal legal adviser wrote to us yesterday with high level advice on our heads of the Bill. I understand that, effectively, the social welfare legislation will be amended as necessary to ensure we can use PPS numbers.