Dáil debates

Wednesday, 14 December 2016

Ceisteanna - Questions

Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

1:00 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to the United States of America. [38631/16]

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his three-day visit to Silicon Valley, Palo Alto and New York and the issues raised. [38661/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach the details of his trip to the USA on 30 November 2016; the companies he met; the details of the meetings at which an EU ruling on a company (details supplied) was discussed; and the actions that were taken. [38665/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach the issues he highlighted surrounding Brexit during his visit to and the meetings he held in the USA; and if he mentioned the future of TTIP at any of the meetings. [38667/16]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to the United States of America; and if he met any representatives of the undocumented Irish. [38775/16]

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to the USA. [38855/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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11. To ask the Taoiseach if he discussed changes in USA policy on the way in which the undocumented are going to be treated at any meeting in the USA. [38668/16]

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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12. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent trip to the United States. [39817/16]

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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13. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the outcomes of his recent visit to Silicon Valley and meeting with a person (details supplied). [39828/16]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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14. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meetings with senior management of a company (details supplied) on his recent visit to the United States of America; and if he discussed Ireland's tax policy and the recent European Commission ruling on the company's tax liability. [39840/16]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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15. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to the United States of America; and the discussions he had regarding a tax case (details supplied). [39937/16]

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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16. To ask the Taoiseach if he discussed the European Commission finding against a company (details supplied) with any companies or public officials during his recent visit to the United States of America. [40021/16]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 16, inclusive, together.

I travelled to the United States on Wednesday, 30 November, for a three-day programme of engagement with key business leaders in Silicon Valley and New York. The primary focus of the visit was to emphasise and promote Ireland’s attractiveness as a location for investment and trade and to communicate Ireland’s priorities in the context of Brexit and other recent significant international developments.

In Palo Alto, I spoke at a reception attended by approximately 250 Enterprise Ireland clients and representatives from the west coast business community. I used that opportunity to promote Ireland as a source for world leading information technology products and services, referencing the success of many Irish companies both in the Silicon Valley region and across the United States. I emphasised Ireland’s attractiveness as a location for US firms and delivered key messages about Ireland’s economic progress and the importance of immigration reform. I also met representatives of a number of Enterprise Ireland clients who were exhibiting their products at the event.

I also met that afternoon with George and Jackie Donohoe, whose daughter, Ashley, and niece, Olivia, lost their lives in the Berkeley tragedy in June 2015. Also present was Celine Kennelly, executive director of the Irish Immigration Pastoral Center. In advance of my first visit to the region since the tragedy occurred, I also met the Irish-based families of those who were killed and injured in the tragedy, including some of the injured themselves, in Government Buildings on 24 November. In renewing my condolences, I expressed my admiration for the work the family had done in driving Senate Bill 465. I assured them that the Government would continue to do what it could to support improvements in US building regulations in order in order to prevent such a tragedy ever occurring again. I paid particular tribute to consul general Philip Grant for the way he conducted his business on behalf of our country arising from that tragedy in Berkeley.

On Thursday, 1 December, I visited Apple Headquarters where I met Tim Cook, the chief executive officer, along with a number of other senior Apple executives. We discussed the company’s substantial investment in Ireland. Mr. Cook highlighted Apple's ongoing commitment to Ireland, including the company's current expansion plans, noting that it is on target to create 1,000 additional jobs here. We had a brief discussion regarding the European Commission’s decision on the Apple state aid investigation. I noted that Ireland had already submitted a very strong appeal to the General Court of the European Union. Mr. Cook noted the company’s intention to lodge its own appeal in due course. The remainder of our discussion focused on global political developments and policy challenges, including Brexit.

Following this, I addressed the San Francisco Bay Area Economic Council, an influential group of leading Bay Area companies, which was hosted by Facebook at its headquarters. I used this opportunity to underline the strength of both Ireland-US relations and Ireland-California relations. I updated the council on Ireland’s economic progress, reiterated Ireland’s attractiveness as a location for investment, highlighted our highly skilled workforce and our focus on innovation and our strong commitment to EU membership. While at Facebook I also took the opportunity to meet some of Facebook’s many Irish staff working there.

I travelled to New York where on Friday, 2 December I had a series of business engagements, including individual meetings with existing and potential investors in Ireland. Once again, I used these opportunities to promote Ireland’s attractiveness as a location for foreign direct investment and emphasised our firm commitment to EU membership.

I had a series of engagements at Bloomberg, including a meeting with Bloomberg chairman, Peter Grauer, and a number of their client companies, a live broadcast interview and a meeting with the chief executive officer, Mike Bloomberg. Discussions covered a wide range of topics, including Brexit, the future of the EU, the implications of the US election, international taxation, globalisation, the rise of populism and Northern Ireland.

I also attended a Partnership for New York City event where I met and spoke to a group of approximately 30 leading New York business people on broadly similar topics to those covered at the Bloomberg events earlier, including Brexit, the US election, the future of the EU, corporation tax, the investment climate and foreign direct investment opportunities in Ireland.

Later that day, I was also glad to participate in the announcement of a strategic partnership between Enterprise Ireland and Northwell Healthcare, one of the leading health care providers on the east coast of America.

This partnership is expected to result in significant opportunities for Irish companies in the US health care sector.

That evening I attended a reception attended by approximately 300 Irish-American political, business and community leaders, including immigration reform bodies, hosted by the Consul General, Barbara Jones, at the Irish Consulate in New York. In my address, I spoke about Ireland’s economic progress, Ireland-US relations, the challenges and opportunities arising from Brexit, the Government’s ongoing commitment to the Northern Ireland peace process and immigration reform. I also spoke about Ireland’s successful programme of 1916 commemorations. I emphasised the Government’s commitment to culture and heritage and was pleased to announce an additional €1 million in funding from the Department of Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs for the Irish Arts Center and $265,000 from the immigrant support programme for the Irish Repertory Theatre. I was also pleased to be able to announce the granting by the US Department of Transportation of a permit to Norwegian Air, which will facilitate new direct flights between Ireland and the USA.

As the focus of my trip was engagement with business leaders, I did not have detailed political discussions on immigration reform or the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, TTIP, during this visit. However, as I previously indicated, I raised immigration reform and our economic and trading interests with both President-elect Trump and Vice President-elect Pence during my phone calls with them following the US elections.

I believe my visit was successful in further developing the strong links between Ireland and the United States as well as promoting Ireland’s priorities in the context of Brexit and other global developments.

1:10 pm

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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There are eight minutes left to this question and five Members offering. To ensure the Taoiseach has an opportunity to reply and I comply with the times allotted, will each Member take one minute which will allow a few minutes for the Taoiseach?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That was a comprehensive presentation of a comprehensive itinerary, covering industry, immigration issues and the Berkeley tragedy. I welcome the fact the Taoiseach met the families involved in the Berkeley tragedy. They have done much work to effect a change in law in what was an appalling tragedy which destroyed so many young lives.

Will the Taoiseach give further clarification on where we are now with the undocumented Irish after the success of President-designate Trump and his perspective on migration generally? Over the past two years, the US President, Barack Obama, liberalised the context for the undocumented, although he did not go the full distance by any means. Nonetheless, people felt a bit freer going around the place. Now, there is more fear and anxiety as a result of what has been said by President-designate Trump.

Do we expect a full ruling from the European Commission on Apple? I am hearing rumours it will be out this week. It is important to get some channel of communication on that.

Will the Taoiseach give me a report on the ongoing progress with the Irish Arts Center? I was involved in that when Minister for Foreign Affairs some years ago and I would like to see where we are in that regard.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The next Deputy in the order of questions as tabled is Deputy Gerry Adams.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I also welcome the Taoiseach's meeting with the Berkeley tragedy families. I commend them on their great courage and commitment in ensuring such an accident will not happen again.

When I was in New York recently, I noted there are concerns within Irish America, among the undocumented and with some of the political leadership about the plight of the undocumented. I know the Taoiseach has raised this issue many times, but we should be conscious people are quite frightened by some of the remarks made by President-elect Trump.

There are also concerns about the need for the White House to continue its active support for the peace process here. There are issues about the past - we have had a lot of controversy here, as well as in this House - but the deal done two years ago, to which this Government has signed up, has still not been enacted. It is being blocked by the British Government. People in the States who are active on these issues know that. The British Government is also blocking the Bill of Rights. This Government has not brought in a charter of rights which it is obliged to do. The Acht na Gaeilge is still being blocked. These are all issues which the US Administration has quietly in the past been able to encourage. I note Gary Hart is in Ireland today. I commend and thank him for his work. He is meeting the deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness.

I welcome the Government’s support for the Irish Arts Center and the Irish Repertory Theatre. These are good investments. I commend the chairperson of the Irish Arts Center, Gerrard Boyle, and particularly the board member, Cel Donaghy, a Carrickmore, County Tyrone man, who has been a great champion of the arts for a long time. We now need to give these people the vote.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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There will be no time for a response.

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach spoke about his meeting with Mr. Tim Cook of Apple. I understand he was reassured by the Taoiseach that Ireland's tax regime would remain at 12.5% for global corporations, despite incoming US President Trump’s intention of reducing the US corporation tax rate to 15%. I understand Apple indicated to the Taoiseach that if it should have to pay the €13 billion ruled against it by the EU, it would do so from an offshore cash pile of €125 billion.

Did it occur to the Taoiseach at any time to discuss with Mr. Cook, or some of the other nice people he met, how tax avoidance and tax dodging in this manner hurts the poor across the globe? Did he discuss how it hurts the developing world most harshly, as was seen recently in an Oxfam report which showed the developing world is being deprived by tax avoidance of twice as much as it receives in aid? Should the developing world receive €100 billion in aid to which it is entitled, this could eliminate world hunger twice over, educate 124 million children not in school and fund health care to save the lives of 6 million children. These nice people the Taoiseach met are answerable for these mortal sins.

I also remind the Taoiseach that yesterday 541 people lay on hospital trolleys.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I am anxious the Taoiseach can give a reply.

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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These figures are higher than they were in January last year. Even if we get a portion of the Apple tax back, surely it could be used to alleviate the hospital trolley crisis.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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This is about a trip to the United States. I am anxious all Members get an answer but we now have only two minutes left.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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I have a simple question for the Taoiseach. When he met Tim Cook, did he tell them anything about the housing and homelessness crisis in our country? Did he tell him anything about the people who are on hospital trolleys or on hospital waiting lists? Did the Taoiseach tell him anything about the children who go to schools with bad conditions such as prefabs, etc? Did the Taoiseach tell Tim Cook how the €13 billion plus interest that he owes the people of Ireland could transform the situation for their lives? Did the Taoiseach say any of this or did he reassure, as the Taoiseach of the sixth worst tax haven in the world, not to worry as we will spend public money to make sure he does not pay us what he owes us?

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Paul Murphy for his brevity.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am glad the Taoiseach had the opportunity to meet so many investors into Ireland. The country is not a tax haven. The jobs, especially with the company in question on the north side of Cork city, are important to the thousands of people working in these companies and the families who depend on those jobs. It is correct to be balanced. Ireland is entitled to have foreign direct investment and be competitive in that respect.

When does the Taoiseach expect the full decision and detailed elements of it on Apple to be published by the European Commissioner? Will he update us on the work being done on this case by the Revenue Commissioners and their legal advisers? I understand there are extensive teams of legal advisers working on this tax case.

I also want to raise an issue in the context of the report from the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, in respect of ECOFIN in November.

The Taoiseach objected to my suggestion that the European People's Party, EPP - the Taoiseach's own party in the European Union - was not really helping Europe to recover. What does the Taoiseach think the EPP is likely to do in regard to the development of the consolidated tax base? Does he agree with prominent Irish economist, Seamus Coffey, who said yesterday that the development of the common consolidated tax base, as proposed by the European Union, constitutes a very significant threat to the Irish corporate tax base?

1:20 pm

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Time has expired but perhaps I could take two minutes from Deputy Howlin's next question to give the Taoiseach an opportunity to reply.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin raised the question of Apple. I expect the commission will publish the ruling before Christmas or very close to Christmas. It will be formally published then and the Minister, Deputy Noonan, informed us of that yesterday.

The arts centre in New York is the result of very close relations between Ireland and America which have existed for a long time. The centre will serve to rebuild the reputation, showcase a whole new generation of Irish creative talent and build a long-term US market share. It will expand the reach of Irish culture to new audiences. The budget for the arts centre is $62.75 million for the 11th Avenue facility and $2.6 million for renovation. Pledges have been secured in the amount of $53 million from the state of New York, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade emigrant support programme, foundations and private donors. The Government here has contributed €4.3 million over the past seven years to the arts centre, €3.3 million from the emigrant support programme of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the €1 million announced recently from the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht. It will be a wonderful opportunity to showcase Ireland right in the centre of New York.

The announcement was made in respect of a further extension of the J1 visa programme for graduates. The issue of the J1 in the short term has not been dealt with yet but it seems as if the issue is confined to protecting borders and to those with criminal records who are in the States illegally. What is the definition of a criminal record? We do not know that? Does it mean a very minor issue of a speeding ticket? Irish people in the New York centre for immigrants are very concerned. I spoke to Brian O'Dwyer last week and he said the number of people expressing their concern has increased considerably. We need to look at this carefully. We are working with the ambassador and Consul General on the issue of President-elect Trump and his appointee in this area.

I do not remember Deputy Bríd Smith being at the meeting with Tim Cook. Let me assure her there was no mention anywhere of a cash pile of €125 billion.

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I did not say the Taoiseach mentioned it. I asked the Taoiseach if he asked about it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy said it was reported Apple would pay it from a cash pile of that sum. We discussed the case-----

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It was reported but perhaps not to the Taoiseach.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and informed Mr. Cook that we had lodged our formal appeal. Apple is lodging its appeal. We discussed the question of an escrow account because the finding and ruling is legally binding. Where the Deputy got her information about this figure is beyond me. It was never mentioned at the meeting and I was there.

Deputy Murphy raised the question of the expansion and proposition by Apple to invest over €1 billion in Athenry. That is the subject of a judicial review. I talked to him about the unprecedented scale of the house building programme being introduced by the Government and the Minister, Deputy Coveney, with particular reference to Cork where there will be an expansion of up to 1,000 jobs.

Deputy Burton agrees we are not a tax haven. The EPP does not have 15 prime ministers anymore. It has about seven now. It is not a case of the EPP prime ministers making decisions at the European Council. That is a matter we put on the agenda. The Deputy will recall in the first six months of 2013 we allowed it to be discussed and debated at the European Council and it did not get anywhere. From my understanding, there are very serious objections to it now. It is not the EPP. Whatever focus the Deputy has on the EPP at the moment, she can leave aside. It is the European Council that will make a decision.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The EPP is ruling Europe at the moment. That is the point.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The report will be published very shortly.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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We must move on. The next question is from Deputy Howlin.