Dáil debates

Wednesday, 7 December 2016

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed) - Priority Questions

Public Transport Provision

2:35 pm

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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26. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he has consulted with Bus Éireann on its plans to reduce expressways services; and the measures he is taking to ensure full services are maintained on Expressway routes. [39119/16]

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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It appears that the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Support, Deputy Shane Ross, has woken up and smelt the coffee if reports in today's newspapers and yesterday's RTE news are to be believed. He finally realised the severe issues that face Bus Éireann and brought them to Cabinet yesterday. Perhaps he might enlighten the House about the situation, now that he has realised the severity of the issues facing Bus Éireann, in particular the Expressway service, and what he intends to do to alleviate these problems.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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​I thank Deputy Troy once again for his kind comments. It is a pity that he was not present at the select committee meeting earlier to be able to make the same comments. Not only was he not there, his substitute was also not there. He should not talk to me about waking up and smelling the coffee. It looks to me as if he did not wake up at all today. Unfortunately, the Fianna Fáil Party was not able to attend a very important committee of which he is a lead and, at various times when he feels like it, a very important contributor. It is good that he is in the House now.

I have been clear since assuming office that issues relating to pay and conditions in any State owned company under my Department's aegis are a matter for discussion and agreement between the employer and the employees. ​I am aware that Bus Éireann is considering options designed to address its significant financial losses which result from its commercial Expressway service. The formulation and progression of those plans are a matter for Bus Éireann. It has engaged consultants to independently review the options available to it as it seeks to address these losses.

In addition, the Deputy is also aware that the company has indicated its desire to discuss the Expressway issue with trade unions. I am firmly of the belief that difficult issues such as this can only be resolved through open, constructive and realistic engagement between the company and its employees, and I do not propose to comment on the detail of any proposals that might be put to trade unions to address the serious challenges facing Bus Eireann. As shareholder, however, I do have a view that Bus Éireann's serious financial challenges should be tackled decisively and effectively so that the company can be viable and serve its customer base on a sustainable basis.

The Deputy will know that there was a Labour Court hearing yesterday to consider a trade union pay claim in respect of Bus Éireann. I understand that the Labour Court decided it will not issue  a recommendation on the basis that the company is finalising  its reorganisation plan which is due for completion by the end of January 2017.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

I note that the Labour Court stated that it would be available to the parties if required. Expressway routes are commercial services which do not receive any Exchequer funding. Last year commercial bus services carried almost 23 million passengers, with approximately 7 million of those passengers choosing an Expressway service.

The Deputy is probably aware that the commercial bus market has seen significant growth in recent years with passenger journeys in 2015 13% higher than in 2013. These services are regulated by the National Transport Authority, NTA, under the Public Transport Regulation Act 2009. There have been instances in recent years whereby some commercial services have been reconfigured leaving certain areas without the desired level of public transport provision. In  response, the NTA has used its powers under the Dublin Transport Authority Act 2008 to ensure continued public transport services through the provision of subvented public service obligation, PSO, services.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I offer the Minister my apologies. My substitute did not attend the meeting. I understood Deputy O'Keeffe represented the party at the meeting. I could not attend, due to a prior arrangement. Last week I could not attend the meeting and asked the Minister to facilitate a change in time, but he was unable to do so. I accept that, but it is deeply unfair and nonsensical on the part of the Minister to say that I do not play a role in the committee and engage with him fully.

There is major anxiety about what is happening with Bus Éireann. The Minister is aware of that and has been since the middle of the summer. Now, two weeks before the end of the year, he has brought the issue to the Cabinet. He has a significant role to play, given that he is the main shareholder in the company. Public meetings are being held throughout the country. People are terrified that they will not have a bus service in the new year and the Minister has done nothing to alleviate those fears, in fact, he is stoking them even further.

I ask the Minister to try to bring about a resolution. The unions need to talk with the management of Bus Éireann, but so too does the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and the NTA. The unions and Bus Éireann are willing to sit around the table. Are the Minister and the NTA willing to sit around the table? A resolution must be found to this issue before there is further industrial action.

2:45 pm

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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2 o’clock

I will correct the Deputy because he was not aware that Deputy O'Keeffe was not there this morning. I am talking about this morning. Deputy Troy should be aware of this as it was an important issue. There was a meeting of the select committee on a Supplementary Estimate of €106 million. Deputy O'Keeffe was not there. No one from Fianna Fáil was there. This is important. No one was there except for the Chairman and Deputy Munster. Deputy Troy should not be inaccurate about those things. It is important that we are not just here for the roaring and shouting. That is where the work is done. A lot of money affecting the Deputy's own area might have been discussed at the meeting and I am sorry he was not there. I will brief the Deputy on it afterwards. I am very happy to brief him on it, if he likes, as well as on last week's meeting which Deputy Troy did not attend either. I accept there was a substitute for Deputy Troy last week, but I will brief him on all these issues when he cannot turn up. That is perfectly all right.

Let me address the issues about Bus Éireann.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am afraid the Minister cannot because his time is up.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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That is the problem with the Minister. He is more interested in tackling the man than tackling the issue. I asked for the meeting last week to be changed but the Minister could not change it, and I accept that. However, he asked that the debate on the same legislation, which was to take place in the Dáil this evening, be moved and we, as a party, facilitated him, so less of the Minister's nonsense and let us get down to the issue that is affecting the men and women who rely on Bus Éireann and Expressway to get to work, hospital appointments and visit relatives who have been contacting me. I do not know if they have been contacting the Minister. I do not know if the Minister has ever travelled on a bus in his life, but there are people outside Dublin who rely on Bus Éireann and the Expressway service to go about their daily lives.

The Minister is the person who is fortunate enough to serve in Cabinet as Minister with responsibility for transport, which he sometimes does not seem to realise. What will the Minister, as the main stakeholder in this company, do to ensure that we will not have industrial action in the new year and that we can achieve resolutions?

I can meet the Minister, without question of a doubt.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is up.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I will bring forward proposals.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy resume his seat?

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I wonder, however, if the Minister will refuse to accept our amendments, as he did last week.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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In future we will try to arrange the meetings of the committee to suit Deputy Troy so that he can shout and roar down there as well as up here. The Deputy knows well of the seriousness of the situation Bus Éireann and its Expressway services face. He knows this because I have commented on it numerous times on the floor of this House and in committee. For the Deputy to affect surprise or outrage at what I say is disingenuous at best.

Since assuming office, I have been briefed repeatedly by my Department officials on the issues faced by Bus Éireann, including the issue of the pay claim lodged by trade unions. I have met the chair of the company twice in recent months, including this week, at which meeting the stark challenges facing the company were again underlined to me. Given this week's Labour Court appearance, I thought it timely to brief my Cabinet colleagues on Tuesday morning on the issues that were likely to feature as part of public commentary. There was no particular significance as regards the timing other than that I thought it an appropriate point at which to update colleagues.

We all recognise that the company faces challenges. Yesterday evening the Labour Court also recognised those challenges when it decided it cannot issue a recommendation while the company finalises its options to address the losses it faces as a result of its Expressway services.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Minister. That concludes the matter.