Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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50. To ask the Minister for Social Protection his plans to end the inequality of treatment of women in the contributory pension system. [35975/16]

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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I am delighted to be able to raise this issue. Deputy Willie O'Dea earlier got to the nub of this issue which Deputy Fiona O'Loughlin raised last week as a Topical Issue. It is hugely important and given that so many Deputies are raising it, I implore the Minister to look into it and do something about it.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The rate of payment of a State contributory pension to a person is related to the number of contributions made by the person during the years into the Social Insurance Fund. There is also a widow’s contributory pension which is generally paid at the full contributory pension rate. The exact same rules apply to women as men. Entitlement levels are calculated by means of a yearly average calculation, where the total contributions made or credited are divided by the number of years of the working life. Payment rates are banded. For example, someone with a yearly average of 48 contributions will qualify for a full State pension, whereas someone with a yearly average of 20 will qualify at 85% of the full rate. More generous conditions apply to widows' pensions.

The homemaker’s scheme was introduced in 1994 to make State contributory pension qualification easier for those who had taken time out of the workforce for caring duties. It allows up to 20 such years, in the period since its introduction, to be disregarded when a record is being averaged for pension purposes.

Where people do not qualify for a full rate contributory pension, they may qualify for an alternative payment. If their spouse has a contributory pension, they may qualify for an increase for a qualified adult amounting up to 90% of a full rate pension which by default is paid directly to them. Alternatively, they may qualify for a means-tested State non-contributory pension which amounts to up to 95% of the maximum contributory rate.

It is planned that a total contributions approach will replace the yearly average approach from around 2020 and the position of homemakers will be carefully considered in the context of that reform. Officials of my Department are working on the detailed development of the new total contributions approach, with a view to making proposals for consideration available to the joint Oireachtas committee in the first quarter of next year. I hope this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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A change was made by the previous Government whereby the minimum number of contributions rose from 260 to 500. This had a devastating impact. As far as I can see, it is always women who are affected and there are no men in the category, certainly none who has come to my office. Typically when we look at the PRSI records of women, they have a contribution record which started sometime in their teens. They probably started working before they started to make contributions. In the case of my mother, she started work at 13 years of age. I am not saying she is affected by this because she is not, but she started work at 13 years and many women are in the same boat. The contributions tapered off in their early to mid-20s when they got married and had to leave the workforce. We have a provision in the Constitution - everybody laughs at how out dated it is - which recognises the work of women in the home, but here is an instance where we should be looking at the Constitution and stating the women in question left the workforce, in some case because they were forced to do so, to work in the home which the Constitution praised and supported, yet they find when they reach pension age having worked from a very young age that they lose out big time. Men have not suffered in the same way.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has spoken about three aspects of the issue. There is a minimum number of contributions people have to have made to receive a contributory pension. This means that during the entire course of their working lives they must have worked for ten years, or 520 weeks. Out of the entire course of a normal working life of perhaps 40 to 45 years, someone must have worked at least ten years and there are no proposals to change this requirement. The second issue is that of averaging, which is a different aspect, on which I take the Deputy's point. We are trying to develop a solution which is moving away from when people made their contributions to the total number they made throughout their working lives. The third issue is that people were forced to leave the workforce. We must bear in mind that most of the people in question, in fact, almost all of them, were public servants pre-1995 who never made contributions, or made reduced contributions which did not entitle them to a State contributory pension. Even if they had not been forced to leave work and never got married - even if they were men - they would not now be entitled to a State contributory pension because public servants pre-1995 paid stamp at a different rate which did not give them any entitlement to receive the State contributory pension. That is still the case.

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know whether the Minister is deliberately not listening or not understanding the point. When I say they were forced to leave the workforce, I am not referring to the marriage bar in the case of public servants. I am referring to women who, by the rules of society or the expectations of married women at the time, were forced to leave the workforce. They left and their contribution records stopped. The Minister raised the issue of averaging issue and I am glad to see that it will be looked at. The minimum number of contributions was changed during the term of the previous Government from five to ten years contributions. This has had a devastating impact on women and I am not speaking about civil or public servants who, by and large, have their own pensions. The women in question would do anything to receive the State pension of €230 a week, but they simply cannot receive it. In some cases, they may have land with a paper value, but it has no practical value for them and they do not qualify for a non-contributory pension. This is very much a women's issue and one of fairness. The women in question will have to be looked at. Many of them have just passed pension age because these rules were introduced in 2013, while others are approaching it. It affects a certain cohort of women who are in the older age bracket and who are being adversely affected.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The requirement to have 520 contributions affects many men and women. If we think about it, I do not believe a requirement to have made during the course of one's entire working life contributions for ten years is unreasonable. People, men and women, who worked for 40 years might have a difficulty with somebody who worked for only ten receiving the same pension as them.

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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It was only changed three years ago.

Brendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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I raised a similar question in which I included self-employed persons and returned emigrants, as well as women. I would welcome a review to try to bring about a fairer system.

I have a case in my constituency of a person who worked for two summers as a 16 and 17 year old, emigrated for 20 years and is now a victim of a very harsh averaging system. There are similar situations for self-employed people whose contributions are not being recognised so it would be welcome to review the situation. I know a lot of expense is associated with this and the Minister's reply to my last parliamentary question suggested it would take between €200 million and €300 million to address all the cases.

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Minister want to make a short reply?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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It is difficult to make a short reply to these issues as they are so complicated. The Deputy's points are noted. We are trying to look at all the anomalies and are hoping to put something before the committee in this regard. We are looking to provide the costs and options for solutions in each case. Whereas a lot of people lose out from the averaging system, a lot also benefit and somebody who only took up work for the first time in their 50s and paid ten years' contributions would be entitled to a full pension, and there are a lot of them around.