Dáil debates

Tuesday, 22 November 2016

Ceisteanna - Questions

US Presidential Election

4:15 pm

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach if he has made contact with the President-elect of the United States of America. [34861/16]

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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11. To ask the Taoiseach if he has made contact with the President-elect of the United States of America. [34863/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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12. To ask the Taoiseach his plans to amend the Government's strategy on the undocumented Irish in the United States of America following the election of President-elect Donald Trump and the President-elect's publicly stated views on immigration. [34866/16]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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13. To ask the Taoiseach the contact he has had with the office of the President-elect of the United States of America, Donald J. Trump; and the implications of his election for the future of US-Ireland relations. [34888/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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14. To ask the Taoiseach the details of and issues discussed in his telephone conversation with President-elect Donald Trump. [35161/16]

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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15. To ask the Taoiseach the detail of the discussions he had with the President-elect of the United States of America, Mr. Donald Trump. [35188/16]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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16. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his conversation with the US President-elect, Mr. Donald Trump. [35196/16]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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17. To ask the Taoiseach if he has had any contact with President-elect Donald Trump following his election victory. [35215/16]

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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18. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his telephone call with President-elect Donald Trump. [35219/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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19. To ask the Taoiseach his plans regarding the Government's strategy on the undocumented Irish in the United States of America and the rate of corporation tax, which may impact on Ireland's ability to attract foreign direct investment in the future, following the election of President-elect Donald Trump. [35164/16]

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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20. To ask the Taoiseach the details of his conversation with President-elect Trump; and his plans to visit the White House on St. Patrick's Day. [35977/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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21. To ask the Taoiseach if he discussed the future relationship between the USA and Russia with President-elect Trump in his recent telephone call. [36131/16]

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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22. To ask the Taoiseach if, during his recent conversation with US President-elect Donald Trump, there was any discussion of the Paris Agreement or climate change. [36342/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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23. To ask the Taoiseach the details of his conversation with President-elect Trump; and if TTIP was discussed. [36009/16]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 to 23, inclusive, together.

I am expected to answer all the Deputies' valid questions in 30 seconds.

As I reported to the House, I wrote to President-elect Trump and Vice President-elect Pence on Wednesday, 9 November offering my congratulations on their success in the US elections. Following those letters, on the night of Wednesday, 9 November, I spoke by telephone with President-elect Trump. During the course of our ten minute conversation, I congratulated Mr. Trump on his electoral success and we both committed to working together to the mutual benefit of Ireland and the United States. Reflecting on the long and tough electoral campaign that took place, I welcomed the conciliatory messages contained in the President-elect's victory speech, noting that a united, inclusive and tolerant America is good for the rest of the world too.

In discussing the importance we place on continuing the strong relationship between Ireland and the United States, President-elect Trump and I spoke about the long-standing tradition of political engagement by Taoisigh in Washington each St. Patrick's Day. Mr. Trump confirmed that he intends to continue that tradition and I look forward to seeing him in the White House for St. Patrick's Day 2017.

President-elect Trump commended Ireland's recent economic progress and noted that he looks forward to doing business with Ireland. I assured him that the Government will work closely with his Administration when it is appointed. I spoke of the real value of US investment in Ireland and noted that this is largely due to the quality of our young people. I also mentioned that approximately 100,000 US citizens are employed in Irish-owned companies across 50 US states.

Last Friday, 18 November, I had a telephone conversation with Vice President-elect Mike Pence. It was a warm and friendly exchange, during which I congratulated him on his election and we discussed the US-Irish economic relationship. He displayed a good understanding of Ireland and Irish-American issues. Vice President-elect Pence has Irish roots. He fondly recalled his visit to Ireland in 2013 and said he looks forward to a further visit to Ireland.

I raised the matter of the undocumented Irish in the United States with both the President-elect and the Vice President-elect. Achieving relief for undocumented Irish migrants in the US and protecting and supporting the peace process will remain priority issues for the Government, in particular, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and our embassy in Washington as well as our consulates in the United States. We will also continue to focus on deepening and strengthening our economic, trade and investment links with the United States.

Neither conversation encompassed any other specific policy issues. It would be premature to attempt to anticipate or comment at this early stage on President-elect Trump's specific policy priorities or our potential responses to these.

We are all acutely conscious of the particular responsibility of the United States for leadership and engagement across the globe in our endeavours to address shared challenges. The Government will continue to work constructively and productively to ensure that our bilateral relations will continue to prosper during the next four years, and we look forward to working closely with our new colleagues in the White House. In the meantime, the Government will continue to engage actively with the administration of President Obama until he completes his term on 20 January 2017.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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I am sure people will sleep soundly in their beds in the knowledge that the custom of presenting the US President with a bowl of shamrock on St. Patrick's Day is set to continue. Everyone was extremely worried about this. I am not sure if the presentation will move from the White House to Trump Tower but perhaps the Taoiseach has some news on that.

On a more serious note, people have noted the swift U-turn the Taoiseach has made in terms of his attitude to the President-elect. Whereas last year, the Taoiseach described Mr. Trump as dangerous and a racist, he now says Mr. Trump is willing to heal wounds. Donald Trump is not willing to heal wounds; he is opening wounds. We see this with the appointment of people such as Steve Bannon, a far-right, anti-Semitic white supremacist who is also a misogynist. We also see it with the appointment of Mike Flynn, who is anti-Muslim and Senator Jeff Sessions, only the second person in the United States to be rejected as a federal judge on account of racism. How are these appointments healing wounds?

With regard to developments in the United States, I have heard journalists and others argue that people should not protest because it is not democratic to do so and Mr. Trump has been elected. The right to protest is part of democracy. Minorities in the United States, whether black people, women or immigrants, are not stupid. Since the election of Donald Trump, racist attacks have increased more than 600 fold. In the week or two since Mr. Trump's election, the number of racist attacks has equated to the number normally recorded in six months. I salute those who are sending Mr. Trump a message that they will not take this lying down.

On Vice President-elect Mike Pence, the Taoiseach sent a gushing tweet over the weekend in which he said Mr. Pence certainly knows Ireland and the issues that matter to Irish people. Last year, Irish people turned out in droves for the same sex marriage referendum. Vice President-elect Pence is bitterly opposed to same sex marriage and has argued, for example, that resources should be provided for conversion therapy to assist those seeking to change their sexual behaviour. How is that in accordance with the views of Irish people?

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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A Teachta, le do thoil, beidh an t-am rite agus ní bheidh seans ag daoine eile atá ag iarraidh.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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Given the extra time provided for the previous questions, I would like to contribute for a couple of minutes.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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My role is to implement the orders of the House. The discussion must conclude when the time provided for this group of questions elapses. The eight Deputies who tabled questions would like responses.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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I ask for 30 seconds to conclude given that we did not argue when more time was provided for the previous group of questions.

While I accept that the Taoiseach must go through the motions of formally greeting the election of world leaders, does he have to do so in such a gushing manner? Last week, the cast of a soap opera treated Donald Trump in the way he should be treated. Rather than sending Mr. Trump a message that he hopes he will respect gay rights, minority rights and immigrant rights, the Taoiseach has been sending a message that he is dying to meet him.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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My question asks the Taoiseach what are his plans to amend the Government's strategy on the undocumented Irish in the United States following the election of Donald Trump and remarks made by Mr. Trump yesterday about looking at every single visa in terms of the degree to which it may undermine American workers' rights. The position is becoming serious for the undocumented Irish in the US in terms of how they are feeling about all of this. President Obama relaxed the position for the undocumented and gave some certainty to those who had been living with undocumented status in the United States for more than 20 years and, in particular, their families. President Obama recognised, for example, that the sons and daughters of the undocumented in the US had particular rights. It seems President-elect Trump is anxious to roll back these rights.

We need to take a fresh look at how we will approach this issue in the light of President-elect Trump's agenda. People may lampoon the bowl of shamrock, but it is not about that; the bowl of shamrock is symbolic. The substance of the week in which St. Patrick's Day falls in the United States is important for Ireland. It is important for the maintenance of Irish jobs and in the promotion of tourism, Irish food products and agriculture. Representatives of very few countries get the opportunity to meet the democratically elected President of the United States, irrespective of one's views and so on, that we get through the deep historical connection between Irish emigrants, the diaspora, the people and the Government because of St. Patrick's Day. It is a gilt-edged opportunity. However, we do so on the basis articulated by the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, in the aftermath of President-elect Trump's election. She made the point eloquently when she said German-US relations would continue on the basis of the same values and ideals which had always informed the relationship. In other words, Chancellor Merkel was not resiling from any of her deeply held values and principles on how society should be organised. I am in a similar vein. I hold steadfast to the principles enunciated before and after the presidential election which I will continue to pursue I recognise democracy and the decisions taken by an electorate, even if I have my own views and opinions on it.

The undocumented Irish are of immediate concern to us. When he spoke to the President-elect, did the Taoiseach refer to the presence in Ireland of multinationals, which has been a cornerstone of Irish industrial policy for the past 40 odd years and yielded thousands of jobs? The President-elect and the American Government are entitled to do what they want with tax rates. However, we do not want to see a hostile attitude towards American companies based in Ireland, given their investment and the jobs they have created here. We need to highlight that issue.

4:25 pm

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Before I call Deputy Joan Burton, it looks as if the Taoiseach will not have time to reply as the 15 minutes will soon be up and there is an order of the House. He might think about how he might reply in written format.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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What ethical framework is the Taoiseach applying to his dealings with President-elect Trump? President-elect Trump has expressed reprehensible views about people from Mexico, whether they are living in Mexico or have transferred to the United States. He has expressed appalling views about women and his approach to them. He has advocated jailing his opponent in the recent presidential election. In foreign affairs Ireland has always sought to operate in difficult circumstances, as no doubt these are. We are all aware that the man is a significant business owner in the west, which is not to be disregarded either. As the leader of the Government, will the Taoiseach set out the framework and the ethics he is applying to how he is approaching President-elect Donald J. Trump? Without a doubt, in his first two weeks as President-elect, he has made an extraordinary number of pronouncements which could certainly influence the future of the world as we know it, as well as the approach to many issues, from tearing up trade deals to reintroducing an emphasis on investment and employment. Some are measures we would support but his views on people of colour and race are reprehensible. His views on women are also shocking.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is way beyond time.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Does the Taoiseach have an ethical framework which he proposes to use in dealing with President-elect Trump and addressing our interests?

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach said he had had a conversation with President-elect Trump and welcomed the conciliatory messages which had come0 from him after he was elected. Does the Taoiseach have any concern about the appointments he has made, many of which have been mentioned here? There are appointees who come from the far right, who are homophobic, warmongering and express everything that is negative in undermining the gains which have been made globally and in American society in dealing with race equality, equality for women and homophobia? In the Roman Empire Caligula wanted to appoint his favourite horse as a consul. I suspect that if Donald Trump were to say tomorrow that he wanted to appoint his horse to office, the Taoiseach would probably still warmly welcome it and greet him in Washington on St. Patrick's Day.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is an outrageous remark.

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Is there any level of degradation to which Donald Trump's appointments might go where the Taoiseach might say that is enough and that he will not bring the bowl of shamrock to Washington next March? Donald Trump has filled his Cabinet and surrounded himself with the chief executive officers of JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs and Cerberus which is at the heart of a scandal with NAMA in this country. This is not a man who is a friend of working people. Instead, he represents the 1% who are creating gross inequalities, both in America and across the planet, as well as attacking public services and the conditions for working people, while reversing the gains made.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I disagree profoundly with Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence. However, we just have to accept the fact that they were elected. They are the President-elect and the Vice President-elect.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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And the last.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We will probably have opportunities to voice our concerns about them in the time ahead and, I hope, not about their actions. My question is relatively straightforward and is about the undocumented Irish. I was in New York for two days last week and the undocumented Irish working on building sites, in pubs and restaurants there are genuinely concerned they will hear a knock on the door and be raced out of the place. I have commended the Taoiseach in the past and know that he has raised this issue consistently. I understand he might be travelling to the USA next week. If so, I recommend he meet as many Irish-American organisations as is possible in that time and raises their concerns directly.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, that brings us to the end of Question Time. It is very clear that there are 45 minutes allocated for Question Time. An internal arrangement was made within the 45 minutes. That arrangement has now elapsed.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It has not.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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It has by almost one minute. I will, however, give the Taoiseach one minute in which to reply.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I just want to make one point. There were some comments made here which, if left unanswered, would find their own way of becoming headlines and they are not true. I deliberately spoke to Vice President-elect Pence about the undocumented Irish.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, one cannot exclude Members from raising their questions and then allow a response.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I am afraid that I cannot allow this, unless the House comes to an arrangement.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We should extend the time allocated.

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach can write to us.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Micheál Martin raised a valid point which needs to be answered. Vice President-elect Pence said-----

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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May I interrupt the Taoiseach for one minute?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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You may.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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It is Government time on which we are infringing. Is the Taoiseach prepared to give some Government time to allow Deputies Brendan Howlin and Eamon Ryan to raise their questions?

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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Give us 15 minutes and we will all be happy.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, we do not need 15 minutes.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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May we have ten minutes of Government time?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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You may.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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All Members are hearing at first hand from undocumented Irish-Americans about real anxieties. I take it that the Taoiseach received no advice from either the President-elect or the Vice President-elect on who he should appoint as our ambassador to the United States?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Certainly not.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Apparently, that is the territory they are in. In response, the Taoiseach said he had raised the issue of the undocumented Irish with both the President-elect and the Vice President-elect. I did not hear him say what response he had received. The only response we have heard in the past 48 hours has set out President-elect Trump's 100-day strategy.

4 o’clock

That really has driven more fear into the hearts of undocumented Irish Americans. Mr. Trump has talked about forensically examining every visa to determine whether it will have an impact on American workers. That is basically a recipe for saying there will be no more visas. There are two fear points. First, those who are in the United States fear they will be summarily arrested and removed because Mr. Trump is talking about deporting 3 million people. This is an incredible number. Second, those who have a prospect of getting a visa now fear this avenue will be closed off. I will be interested in hearing not only that the Taoiseach raised this but also the concrete response he got.

4:35 pm

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I am looking forward to the Taoiseach's response. He said outrageous remarks were made. I am interested to hear what he says in that regard. Does he accept that this is a difficult issue for all sides of the House? We could, as Deputy Adams said, just accept that the candidates got elected and move on.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I did not say that.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The other day, after the Taoiseach's telephone call with Vice President-elect Pence, various gay friends of mine were straight on to me asking how the Taoiseach could receive a telephone call and not raise or stand up for gay rights with someone who, as stated, argued gay marriage would bring about the collapse of society. For example, the Vice President-elect has advocated state funding for conversion therapy to turn LGBT people straight. There is a balancing act between being diplomatic and standing up for certain values, rather than just normalising positions that are beyond the pale. I am interested in hearing the Taoiseach's view on this. I would like the Taoiseach to consider the example of gay rights, which he will rightly say the previous Government championed. We all introduced marriage equality. How can we protect the fundamental principles we now hold in a diplomatic way?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Coppinger raised the question of the shamrock. Deputy Martin has answered this very well. It has been symbolic of the links between this country and the United States for very many years. It has nothing to do with the shamrock itself but the link-----

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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The bulk of my questions were not about the shamrock.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----established between the two countries over very many years and one we are very glad to see will be retained in the time ahead. Vice President-elect Pence was very strongly in favour of continuing in his role in the same way as Vice President Biden over recent years.

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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Did the Taoiseach discuss the marriage equality referendum?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Out of all this comes the recognition that politics matters, including in respect of Brexit and the American presidential election. The decision has been made. It has been made by the electorate of the United States. It went to the ballot box and elected Vice President-elect Pence and President-elect Trump. Politicians the world over have to deal with the consequences of whatever Administration emerges from that, as I have said in this House before. That Administration is not in place yet and decisions have not been taken. I note that when Japanese Prime Minister Abe met President-elect Trump, he said that he was a person he could work with in the interest of Japanese-American relations. President Obama himself, despite the campaign he carried out for candidate Hillary Clinton, said it is now accepted in America that there is a transition period and that one should allow for an orderly transition to a new Administration. The same was said by Hillary Clinton herself. She said it is time for America to move on and that the decision has been made by the people. The Administration is in the process of being appointed.

We stand up for our own rights by our own actions. Deputy Eamon Ryan made the point that arising from the first ever citizens' convention, we had a referendum on gay marriage and equality of rights. I was very happy to support it. It was a wonderful period of exultation and excitement among Irish people at home and among the Irish diaspora abroad.

I spoke deliberately to Vice President-elect Pence. It is important to acknowledge that he knows from his own roots, since his ancestors travelled through Ellis Island into the United States, what this actually means. I put it to him that there was concern about Irish people who live in America, who may be married an America, pay their social security payments and work in the interest of the American economy. The point he made to me was that the comments made by President-elect Trump were, in the first instance, in respect of border security and that, second, his priority was in connection with the undocumented with criminal records or criminal intent. On that spectrum, this is where we need to work with the Administration to be appointed. Vice President-elect Pence was very clear about the priorities in respect of security of borders and those undocumented who have criminal records. He did not go beyond that.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Three million of them.

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Thirteen million was the figure.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is a point on which we must now work with the Speaker of the House, who has strong Leinster roots. I will be talking to the Speaker of the House in due course.

I mentioned multinationals to the President-elect and made the point that, over many years, America invested in Ireland because of its strong legal base, its English-speaking population, its access to the European Union and its static corporate tax rate, which was our business under the European treaties. I made the point to him that the real reason American investment is taking place here and has grown substantially over the years is the quality of the education system and of the young people emerging under that market. I made the point to him that it is now at a stage when Irish-owned firms employ almost 100,000 US citizens across the 50 US states.

Deputy Burton should note that we must work with the US Administration when it is appointed. This is politics. We will not lose any of our ethical standards or values in this country. Why should we? We do not have control over the American system, nor does it have control over ours. In politics, however, one has to make decisions that are in the best interest of the people of our country and the economies of our countries. Obviously, we are prepared to work on that.

Deputy Bríd Smith should note that the comments made by the President-elect were conciliatory. Deputy Howlin mentioned the real anxiety among the undocumented. I have said to him what the Vice President-elect said to me about the priorities of the President-elect. I intend to follow through on that, obviously. I note today that the President-elect's 100-day strategy, published in The New York Times, sets out the areas where he can act unilaterally as President, where he will require congressional support to act if he follows through on various measures, and the areas where there might be a need for other interventions, be they administrative, bureaucratic or otherwise, in respect of the priorities he has set out.

Deputy Ryan has left the Chamber. We stand up by our own actions. The new US Administration has not taken up office yet and decisions have not been made. Obviously, we now have to have our own connections with a Republican party that controls both the Congress and Senate, in addition to connections with the American political system in general. These are all issues on which, from a political perspective, we need to be able to continue to work with the United States, as other countries will and must do. In that sense, it is an international challenge. We have a number of these facing us now. When the President-elect takes up office on 20 January, we will see the shape of the Administration and its views. Our personnel, diplomatic relations and business connections with the United States will be important in the sense of continuing to build on where we want to be.

In respect of Caligula and his horse, they are long gone.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank all the Members for their co-operation. It was an important issue.