Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

28. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if he envisages difficulties in recruiting extra teachers, as outlined in the budget speech made by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, in view of the inferior terms and conditions for new teachers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30837/16]

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In last month's budget, the Government set out its plans to recruit an additional 2,400 teachers. How on earth does the Minister expect to recruit teachers given that new teachers are beginning on a lower payscale? How does he think new entrants can be attracted into a two-tier system in which unequal pay for equal work is enshrined?

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for his question. We have recruited 2,260 teachers so far this year. We have not yet encountered difficulty in recruiting teachers. There can be occasional recruitment difficulties in particular subject areas. We continue to see a high level of interest in pursuing a career in education through the CAO system. The points requirement for entry into initial teacher education courses is at the upper end. It is important that we are continuing to attract very talented people to teaching. I think this has been one of the strengths of our system. We recognise the importance of being able to attract quality new entrants across the public service, particularly in important professional areas like education. I believe there is no more important area in which we can invest.

As the Deputy knows, during the financial crisis there was a need to enact a number of measures to reduce public expenditure and stabilise the country's public finances. The pay of new entrants to the public service, including teachers, has been reduced since 2011. Considerable steps have been taken to reduce that gap since 2011 under the Haddington Road and Lansdowne Road agreements. As a result of the successful conclusion in September of the negotiations I entered into with the TUI and the INTO under the most recent agreement, the decision to withdraw the qualification allowance has been reversed. As I have outlined previously, significant increases have been sanctioned for people who entered teaching last year and this year. This is worth €4,300 for someone who entered teaching this year. In the case of someone who entered teaching last year, the increase is worth €6,700, bringing his or her salary to €36,700. That is a very significant improvement.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister has said that there is "no more important area in which we can invest" than education, but his policy of fighting to maintain pay inequality at the core of this country's teaching profession is a funny way of showing it. Even with the TUI agreement, new teachers who are coming in are suffering a significant pay gap. Some of them are paid €6,000 or €7,000 less than the people beside whom they work and who do the same job. Even those with the so-called deal will be down more than €100,000 over the period of their careers.

They are also often in situations of having precarious, low-hour contracts, not full-time contracts, and are in very difficult circumstances. The most fundamental question for those considering going into teaching is whether the Government is committed to establishing pay equality or whether it wants pay inequality and a two-tier pay system indefinitely into the future.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

First, I should explain that the way in which teachers are paid includes an increment, so a teacher with ten years experience could be on €45,000 to €50,000 compared to a teacher who was recruited in 2015, who would be on €37,700. Built into the structure, people are not paid the same and it depends on the period in which the person was recruited.

What we have done in the negotiations is that three quarters of the lifetime gap that was imposed in that stringent period has been closed by the combination of measures we have put in place, both under Haddington Road and in the recent negotiations I have had with the TUI and INTO. We have also addressed the issue the Deputy raised in regard to precarious positions and we have sought to make it easier for young teachers to get permanency.

The issue of where we go from here is one for the wider public service. We have to enter negotiations for a successor to this agreement and, no doubt, the issue of new entrant pay will be on the table not just for teachers, but for all public servants. It is in that context that we will look at the steps beyond what we have already agreed.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government would like to get away from the core issue, which is pay equality. I do not think it can because that is central, but it would like to. For example, the question of increments is fine. Nobody has a problem with the idea that someone who has ten years experience should be paid more than someone with five years experience - that is not what we are talking about. However, some people with five years experience are getting a fair bit more than other people with five years experience or with ten years experience, and so on all the way up.

I was on a television show recently with the Minister of State, Deputy Damien English, who said he was in favour of pay equality across the public sector, including for teachers, at some unspecified point in the future. Since then, other Government Ministers have expressly not given even that commitment. The fear we have is that this is part of the Government's plan into the future for the public sector, and teachers in particular. Deputy Bruton is the Minister for Education and Skills. Does he want to see a situation where teachers get equal pay for equal work, based on experience, or where pay inequality continues?

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The approach we have taken is to sit down with all of the trade unions, particularly those within the Lansdowne Road agreement, and to work on the issues their members present. Just as under Lansdowne Road, the issue of new entrant pay was presented, and I believe we have responded very fairly to it and, as I said, we have met three quarters of the gap. I have no doubt that, when the next process starts, new entrant pay will be again on the table. It will not be just for teachers, but for the whole public service. We will again sit down and negotiate with people as to how that can be integrated with other demands that will be coming from other unions and with the other pressures we have to meet from the available money.

One of the elements of what we have done is that, further up the scale, we have integrated the scales so that, at a certain point, teachers will be on the same scale. That has been one of the elements of the work we have already done in closing this gap.