Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach when he will appoint a new National Economic and Social Council. [33719/16]

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach his plans to provide instructions to the National Economic and Social Council; and the detail of the subjects. [33720/16]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.

I last appointed the council in 2011 and the five-year term has expired. At the moment my Department is assessing the arrangements that will work best for a new council. As part of the considerations, the Secretary General of my Department wrote to all the members of the outgoing council on 14 October last, seeking views and suggestions on the future role and work programme of a council in advance of a plenary discussion scheduled for 17 November. The meeting will enable reflection on the work of the council to date, views on the best arrangements for the council and its future work programme in a changing policy landscape.

NESC has offered a valuable combination of economic, social, environmental and institutional perspectives that are necessary for good policy making. The views of the outgoing members will be an important contribution to any new arrangements. The background is that NESC was one of three constituent bodies of the National Economic and Social Development Office established under the NESDO Act 2006. Two of the constituent bodies, namely, the National Economic and Social Forum, NESF, and the National Centre for Partnership and Performance, NCPP, were dissolved in 2010, meaning that the framework of the NESDO is no longer necessary.

The previous Government agreed to dissolve the NESDO and place NESC on a statutory footing. The task in hand. Significant reports from NESC in the past few years include Housing Supply and Land; Driving Public Action for the Common Good; Ireland’s Private Rental Sector, Pathways to Secure Occupancy & Affordable Supply; Homeownership and Rental: What Road is Ireland On?; and Social Housing at the Crossroads: Possibilities for Investment, Provision and Cost Rental.

In addition, NESC provided analytical support to the expert group on the future funding of higher education and assisted in drafting its final report. At the moment, the secretariat is continuing its work on a number of projects such as funding of higher education; follow-up work to its Report on Jobless Households; working with the Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government on issues relating to housing and the rental sector; and on a range of sustainable development themes, such as experimental approaches to climate change in Irish agriculture, the challenge of delivering compliant low energy buildings in Ireland and beginning research on infrastructure policy formulation and institutions.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I would be interested in getting behind the Taoiseach's reply. The National Economic and Social Council, NESC, is a venerable institution that goes back to the 1970s. It has performed a very useful support to the Taoiseach and the Government of the day in bringing different perspectives together regarding major economic, social and environmental issues that have been faced from time to time. We certainly face an array of formidable economic, social and environmental issues today. I am interested in hearing the Taoiseach's view on the role of NESC.

Since we were in government together over a difficult period, I know there were people advising the Taoiseach at the time who were opposed to the concept of NESC and would not have been adverse to its abolition. There is an important role for NESC and it is a cause of concern to me that the council, which is the overarching governing body of NESC, has been allowed to lapse without any appointment being made. From last February there was one vacancy but, subsequently, the five-year term expired and there is now no governing council. One does not need to be brilliant to figure out that there is no regard for NESC within the current Government and that it does not see a role for NESC into the future. If it did, it would have appointed a board by now.

I am interested in the Taoiseach's personal view. Does he see a role for NESC in bringing together, as it has done in the past, many of our principal social, economic and societal actors to focus on issues of real importance or is he of the view that was expressed by at least one of his former advisers that this was a sort of throwback to a social dialogue that was no longer relevant or needed today?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Howlin asked me if I saw a role for NESC. The answer to that question is "Yes". NESC has always been a very valuable resource for the Taoiseach of the day and for the public at large because of the reports it produced and the discussions and the dialogue that took place. As Deputy Howlin is well aware from his previous experience, NESC was always a way of dealing with social partnership in one form or another. Things have changed and moved on.

The Secretary General is meeting with the NESC members tomorrow to discuss their views on and analysis of what lies ahead and what might be best in that regard. I support that strongly and look forward to hearing the views of the members as to how best we might proceed from here. I see an important role for NESC. Just because there is no NESC at the moment does not mean there is any sleight of opinion from Government on that. I would like to hear the members' view on their role in the future and make a decision to provide for that in the best way possible. The Secretary General will meet the members tomorrow and I will be having discussions with him.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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When does the Taoiseach envisage that he would nominate the new NESC? Has he a timeframe in mind for that? Is he exploring nominations from the constituent groups that made up the council heretofore? Has he opened discussions with any of what might be described as the social partners on forming a new council, and on what date will we know the new council? Bluntly, until there is a council appointed, the NESC is dysfunctional. It would be an indication to me that the Government does not have regard for the role the NESC has played in the past and does not envisage that the NESC has such a role in the future.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If I may, I will just take the time to let them have the meeting tomorrow and discuss the outcome of that. As Deputy Howlin will be aware, business, employers, ICTU, farming and agricultural interests, the community and voluntary sector and the environmental sector are all pillars. Each may nominate a minimum of three and a maximum of four to the council. The legislation also provides for six public servants and up to eight independent members. There was a vacancy which existed at the time the council expired and that was the former secretary of the Irish Farmers Association. I will let them have their meeting, I will talk to the Secretary General and I will come back and advise Deputy Howlin as to the next stage. If I can fix a date, I will be happy to announce it.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Can I allow Deputies Micheál Martin and Adams ask a question?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Of course.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I commend Deputy Howlin on raising this question because the absence of the council goes to the heart of what is wrong in the country in some respects, namely, the lack of independent thinking. The NESC has done a good job over the years. It has not been willing to play the role of ideological advocacy that some in this House might want it to do but it has helped work to get to some sort of common vision about where we as a society should go on different sectors of the economy. The NESC works best when it focuses on being expert and independent, setting out the realistic challenges and options. Something we are missing at present is enough independent voices in public debate.

The growing crisis in industrial relations speaks to a lack of an overall sense of direction in the country in terms of strategic objectives. There have been all sorts of demands made, left, right and centre. We have the Brexit challenge which still remains the most fundamental single major change in our economic model in 45 years since we joined the European Union with Britain. Britain leaving the EU now is fundamental. I would have thought there was a strong role for the National Economic and Social Council in scenarios such as Brexit, the public pay issue, and the anti-globalisation or protectionist trends that are now emerging in many countries in Europe and the United States. These call for a mid-term review, something which the NESC was always quite engaged in.

It is many years since the NESC prepared a comprehensive medium-term review. Will the Taoiseach ensure the NESC is working as effectively as possible and will he take steps? In his answers to Deputy Howlin he was not quite saying that he will get it going again. I would ask the Taoiseach, if he is doing so, to consider that small to medium-sized companies might usefully fall within the remit of the NESC. There has always been a sense that the particular needs of small and medium-sized enterprises were not adequately catered for by the NESC.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is the very point. These are two valuable comments from Deputies Howlin and Micheál Martin. I want to see an NESC that is appropriate for the future. I would like to hear their view on whether it would have the same kind of pillars or the same numbers. That is the purpose of the Secretary General meeting them tomorrow.

On the point Deputy Martin makes about small businesses, if one is to have an NESC which will be independent and has the capacity to give objective opinions in a changed situation where we face international pressures for a variety of reasons, having the exact same formula as before in terms of the sectors that were represented may not be entirely appropriate for the future. I will bear that in mind.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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An Teachta Howlin raises an important question here. As the Taoiseach acknowledged, the term of the current council has expired some time ago.

However, members have not been appointed or re-appointed and there is a full complement of staff. There is a secretariat, but it has no members and no work plan. What is it doing? The National Economic and Social Development Office, NESDO, is effectively obsolete yet it remains in place as the body responsible to NESC, to which it is supposed to report if it had anything to report. The Taoiseach said that the last Government promised legislation to abolish NESDO, but this matter dates back to when former Deputy Brian Cowen was Taoiseach. The issue of abolishing NESDO and establishing NESC as the remaining statutory body has been on successive Governments' legislative programmes since 2013. Perhaps the Government could give a timeframe for when it will have concluded the deliberations the Taoiseach mentioned. Can the Taoiseach give a date for when legislation to deal with these matters will be debated in the House?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We agreed previously that NESC would be put on a statutory footing and that NESDO would be dispensed with when that happens. That is still the intention. The first issue is what type of NESC we wish to put in place to reflect the changed circumstances and that is the reason for the discussions taking place. Then we can get on with doing that. However, it is not as if there are no opportunities for people to give objective comment. For example, the National Economic Dialogue provides an opportunity for people to have their say, as do the new Labour Employer Economic Forum, which I met, the Climate Change Advisory Council and the Social Inclusion Forum. These are all fora where people have the opportunity to give their views. I will follow through on the meeting tomorrow with the Deputy.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am grateful for the Taoiseach's reply. There is now a view that this should be reconstituted and I look forward to that happening. I strongly agree with the point made by Deputy Martin. There are very significant issues at present that require a strategic approach. Obviously one of them is the next round of public sector pay. I raise public sector pay as an issue because I believe it must be linked to the quality of public services. One always considers pay, more numbers and additional services as demands on the same pot of money, so we must have a strategic approach to that and NESC has advised usefully on it in the past. Clearly, the Brexit issue requires a strategic sounding board for the Government. The important challenges the country will face could do with the sounding board of expertise which NESC has traditionally provided.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Those are valuable points. Perhaps Deputy Howlin did not hear me but in the meantime there is the National Economic Dialogue, the Labour Employer Economic Forum, the Climate Change Advisory Council and the Social Inclusion Forum. The points the Deputies have made are valid and we will take them into account.