Dáil debates

Wednesday, 9 November 2016

Ceisteanna - Questions

Cabinet Committee Meetings

1:10 pm

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European affairs last met. [33524/16]

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on European affairs last met. [33552/16]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach the number of times the Cabinet committee on European affairs has met; and if he will provide its forward schedule of meetings. [33564/16]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on European affairs was re-established by the Government on 23 May 2016 and has met on two occasions since. It met on 21 June prior to the June European Council and on 17 October prior to the October European Council. It is scheduled to meet again in December before the next European Council meeting. The purpose of the Cabinet committee on European affairs is to discuss and shape Ireland's strategic approach to EU engagement. The committee will continue to work to ensure a coherent approach across all policy areas, in particular in relation to priority issues for Ireland, and to anchor Ireland's influence and interests in Brussels. This strategic approach at EU level will continue to include engagement at bilateral level with fellow member states and alliance building with other partners. In addition to the Cabinet committee on EU affairs, a separate Cabinet committee was established on 8 September to co-ordinate our response to issues arising from the UK decision to leave the European Union. The committee last met on 7 November and will meet again shortly.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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Did the committee discuss the question of CETA, the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement with Canada, which has been a source of major controversy across Europe over the past number of weeks? CETA is seen to represent TTIP in Canadian clothes. The ISDS system is simply renamed "the investor court system" and provides corporations with the right to sue states if they interfere with the right to profit. The race to the bottom in regulation is reflected in the establishment of a regulatory co-operation forum. The forum will see a race to the bottom in consumer rights, labour rights and environmental rights in the interest of corporations. The fundamentally undemocratic nature of the agreement is reflected in the fact that it is a living agreement and an ongoing committee of so-called experts will play a role in drafting regulations to the detriment of workers and ordinary people and to the benefit of big business.

It is telling that for an issue that has no popular support whatsoever in Europe or Canada, such huge pressure was brought to bear on regional governments in Belgium, including the Walloon, Brussels and German-speaking governments. Immense pressure was brought to bear against their resistance and opposition in order to force them to accept the provisional application which has since been agreed.

I have some questions for the Taoiseach on the sub-committee. Did Ireland join in applying undemocratic pressure on regional Belgian governments in order to pressure them to agree to the signing and provisional application of the CETA agreement? Has the sub-committee considered whether there is any constitutional problem with the provisional application of CETA, given that Article 29.5.2° of the Irish Constitution states: "The State shall not be bound by any international agreement involving a charge upon public funds until the terms of the agreement shall have been approved by Dáil Éireann."? They have not been approved by Dáil Éireann, yet provisional application means that the investor court system now applies. That means a charge can apply on the Irish State if, for example, it told various Canadian corporations they could not do various things they consider as going against their right to profit, which represents indirect expropriation.

Considering the opposition and difficulty the European elites had with getting provisional application through and signing, never mind ratifying, the agreement, how does the Taoiseach feel about getting it through parliaments across the European Union? How will it be passed by this Parliament, given that the more people become aware of what are in international trade agreements the more opposition to them exists?

1:15 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Has the sub-committee discussed the question of unaccompanied children in Calais? As the Taoiseach knows, given that I raised the issue with him last week, there have been discussions with the Business Committee and so on, and a specific request from the Not On Our Watch group that 200 unaccompanied children who are in serious danger and are very vulnerable are taken in by Ireland. There are well over 1,000 young people in the jungle in Calais. This is against a background where thousands of unaccompanied children have disappeared, hundreds from Calais itself. Has the sub-committee made a decision on whether it will accede to the request that we tell the French authorities we will take in 200 children?

I have seen the draft motion from the Government. It is vague and makes no specific reference to numbers, commitments or anything like it. It is all about considering this and that. That is not what we asked for. Having consulted with the Not On Our Watch group, I can now signal that an amendment will be tabled in the next hour or two unless the Government is willing to make specific commitments. An e-mail was sent to the Government stating what is required for the motion to get all-party support. I want a direct answer from the Taoiseach.

In the United States a President who plans to shut the door on children and immigrants from war zones has been elected. A disgraceful and utterly racist policy has been articulated by the new President of the United States. There is no time more appropriate for us to send a message in the opposite direction, namely that this country will open its arms and doors to young, vulnerable children whose lives and safety are at risk and send a message to Mr. Trump that we are not going along with his nasty vilification of desperately vulnerable people. Will the Taoiseach tell us the position of the Government and Cabinet Committee on European Affairs on taking in 200 unaccompanied children?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will take two brief supplementary questions from Deputies Adams and Martin.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I also want to raise the issue of the attitude of the Government to the call to bring 200 unaccompanied refugee children, who face serious risk in Calais, as articulated by Not On Our Watch, to Ireland. I have a copy of the proposed draft motion. I have not had the opportunity to consult with anyone on it, but it is ambiguous, unconditional and makes no real commitments.

It certainly does not deal with the specific request made of the Oireachtas, which is to take in 200 of these children.

Has the Cabinet committee discussed the Government's response to the ongoing humanitarian tragedy? A report by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees confirmed last Friday that at least 240 refugees had drowned recently off the coast of Libya. We are almost immune to it. We are speaking about people. Five rescue boats were within sight of the refugees but, despite their best efforts, most of those refugees died. The Government is still remiss in terms of its commitments, which are too limited. We should be making a greater commitment to bringing those people to this country, but the Government has not even kept to its own targets. In terms of the Not On Our Watch group's request, it appears to me that the Government is dodging the issue. Will the Taoiseach reconsider and accept the imperative of taking these 200 children from France?

1:20 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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A question was asked about the Cabinet Committee on European Affairs. We are in the middle of a crisis. The EU itself is in a crisis. Brexit has been a catalyst for that and there are other issues as well, including economic, social and political ones. Ireland needs to have a position on how we want to see the European Union evolve post-Brexit. Our membership changes as a result of the decision of the UK to leave the EU and our relationships with other countries will have to take stock of that change. Other countries, for example, France and Germany, are raising the old tax harmonisation agenda. There is talk of more centralisation of powers within the European Union. We need to speak up for what we want and how we envisage the European Union evolving. Is it not time for us to produce a detailed White Paper on European Union policy?

I have sought a debate on the EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, for the past three weeks. I disagree fundamentally with what previous Deputies have stated. Trade matters for Ireland. It creates jobs for Ireland. Are we seriously stating that Ireland should be an isolationist Ireland on the periphery of Europe that does not want to be part of any global trade agreements? It beggars belief that such an argument is gaining sway without any counterargument being facilitated in the national Parliament. We need a full-blooded debate on what Ireland wants in terms of trade. The lifeblood of small to medium-sized enterprises, services, agrifood and traditional manufacturing is trade.

The Canadian deal opens up significant opportunities for those involved in the export of infant formula, beef and other products as well as those involved in software services. It presents a great opportunity, so why the hell are people arguing that we should not create that opportunity for Irish companies? It is always a one-way train: this must be terrible, is terrible and should never happen. People should realise that Canada and Ireland have a lot in common. We have similar systems and we can and will benefit from access to the Canadian market. This is particularly so for our services sector and some of our food companies. We need a proper, comprehensive debate in this House so that the other side of the argument is heard. There is value in having open trade. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, this country decided to be outward looking and to be open in its approach to trade. The approach has been beneficial in terms of jobs and industrial policy. It is time to state that fact.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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May I ask two short questions of the Taoiseach, a Cheann Comhairle?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I add my voice of concern to that of those who spoke on the draft motion. Rather than having a division on the floor of the House, could we sit down to try to reach consensus? There was a huge degree of consensus last week on this issue. I believe the Government was party to that consensus, although it may not have been well expressed by those on the Government benches. Let us try to get an agreement on the motion.

On the Cabinet Committee on European Affairs, yesterday the Taoiseach stated that he would look for some regular mechanism to update the House, for instance, by way of a weekly bulletin or debate. Has he thought further on how that can be done?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we have a consolidated response from the Taoiseach?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes, indeed.

The final matter, which was raised by Deputy Howlin, relates to Brexit. I am open to having an opportunity for everybody in the House. I do not know if the Deputy would like to have 30 minutes or one hour per week for a brief resumé on what is going on. We could have contributions from Members or we could continue with a more regular briefing of the leaders of the parties to bring them up to date or-----

1:25 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I would like everyone to be provided with a weekly update on Brexit.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We can do that. If leaders of the parties request an interim update on some aspect, we will also supply them with that.

Deputy Paul Murphy raised the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, about which Deputy Micheál Martin spoke very clearly. I am not sure what we, as a trading nation, are afraid of in respect of having agreements that provide trade and job opportunities for hundreds of thousands of our people. I do not know if the Deputy has been around the country but he should visit many of the smaller firms all over Ireland to see what they are doing and where they are exporting. He should not be afraid of that.

CETA was signed on Sunday, 30 October 2016. The European Parliament must give its consent before the agreement can be provisionally applied. I strongly support CETA and the Government strongly supported its provisional application. We are of the view that there should be no impediment to Irish companies taking immediate advantage of the provisions of CETA which are of EU competence, including the all-important chapters in the programme on public procurement rules and tariffs. We very much welcome the clarity afforded in the joint interpretative declaration on issues which were the subject of some disquiet and speculation. This provides further assurances in respect of public services, labour and environmental rights and the investment courts system. These areas have been the subject of much public debate.

In addition, the investment protection and investment dispute settlement mechanisms have been specifically carved out from provisional application. This means these provisions will not come into effect until voted for by the Dáil. Provisional application is a standard process in free trade agreements, which provides for the coming into effect of those areas over which the European Union has competence. The full entering into force of CETA will be subject to the approval of all member states through the relevant national ratification procedures. This means the Dáil will be part of the final decision to ratify CETA in accordance with Article 29.5.2 of the Constitution.

CETA will save on duty costs, as 99.9% of all industrial tariffs will be eliminated on it entering into force. It will open up new markets and opportunities for many Irish firms and end limitations in access to public contracts. It will open up services markets and offer predictable conditions for investors. Irish firms will benefit from the recognition of products standards and certification, thus saving on the double testing on each country on both sides of the Atlantic.

The agreement has been publicly available online in all languages since 5 July.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must move on to the next question.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Taoiseach did not answer my question on unaccompanied children in Calais.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry but we are out of time.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Three Deputies asked questions on the issue.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will Deputy Mick Barry cede some of the time provided for the next question?

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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I will cede one minute.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Discussions are taking place between the parties in respect of the Calais situation. This matter, which has been raised at European Council meetings on a number of occasions, is between Britain and France. The British Government has duties and responsibilities under the European Union treaties to take in unaccompanied minors and children where they have relatives or family in the United Kingdom. This matter was dealt with between President Hollande and the former Prime Minister, Mr. David Cameron, on a number of occasions.

The situation in Calais was completely unacceptable. The humanitarian crisis has been dealt with to the extent that some children have been taken into Britain and the French social services are looking after the remaining children. A case has been made for Ireland to take 200 children. We have taken more than 100 unaccompanied children under the programme to which we signed up. I make the point to Deputy Boyd Barrett that when we brought children here before we put them into hostels and some of them died in the care of the Health Service Executive, while others disappeared or were trafficked into the sex industry. We will not stand for a repeat of that situation.

I understand only 28 foster parents are available. Tusla has stated that an exceptional cost applies to this, although I do not want to talk about money in this regard. If we do this, and we want to help, we need to have services and proper accommodation available for young unaccompanied minors.

We have over 100 here already. Tusla has spoken about the medical, language, health and the educational requirements. They should be in foster homes. While this has been a terribly disappointing situation, Ireland wants to help. We did sign on for 4,000 refugees. There are numbers coming in already who are children.

1:35 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is a "No".

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Up to 209 of those who came in under the resettlement programme are children. Of the 109 who arrived under the relocation programme, 47% of them are children. I understand there are over 100 here.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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You are saying "No" then.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We cannot go back to the way we were. We do want to help, Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett. I hope some conclusion can be reached to have agreement in respect of what we might be able to do.