Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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8. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport the timeline for the Dublin metro and the DART east-west interconnector. [32780/16]

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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As much as I understand the traffic problems the Minister and Deputy were just speaking about in the town of Maigh Chromtha, I draw the Minister's attention to the fact that the capital city, Dublin, is about to gridlock. We are facing a real transport crisis. The M50 cannot be further extended. All the roads that lead to Dublin will hit that motorway and the city will not work. We suffer terribly because the big public transport projects that have been planned for more than 17 years have not progressed. When does the Minister intend opening the Dublin metro north line and the DART east-west interconnector between Heuston Station and Spencer Dock?

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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The Deputy’s written and oral question seem to be slightly different but I will try to address them both through my supplementary replies. I do not mean they are very different but there is certainly a lot more in the Deputy's oral question than in his written one. I will address both.

The National Transport Authority, NTA, has statutory responsibility for the implementation and development of public transport infrastructure projects in the greater Dublin area, including metro north and heavy rail projects. With regard to the DART underground project, which is specifically mentioned in the Deputy's question, the business case for the project was reviewed in 2015 and the NTA recommended that the tunnel element be redesigned to provide a lower cost technical solution while retaining the required rail connectivity. The Government accepted the NTA's recommendation and announced in September 2015 that the tunnel element would not proceed as originally designed but would be redesigned. DART underground remains a key element of integrated transport for the greater Dublin area and the implementation of the overall DART expansion programme, including the redesigned tunnel, is included in the NTA's transport strategy for the greater Dublin area for the period 2016 to 2035. Funding for redesign and planning of the project is available under the Government's capital plan, Building on Recovery: Infrastructure and Capital Investment 2016-2021. Funding is also provided under the capital plan for planning, design and construction of the new metro north. The funding in the initial years of the capital plan allows for planning and design work on the project, with construction expected to commence in 2021 with a view to delivering the project by 2026 or 2027.

The decision to proceed with new metro north followed consideration of the Fingal-north Dublin transport study and the NTA's recommendations on the study, which identified the light rail link as the optimum long-term public transport solution on the Swords-airport-city centre corridor.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Why does the Minister say the National Transport Authority has responsibility? This is a political issue. The former Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, made one of the worst mistakes in his career, which should rule him out as a potential Taoiseach, when he shelved a project that was ready to go, had financing available and was in the four-year plan. We knew then as we knew in 2000 that we needed this project. The Minister is right that Deputy Varadkar's successor as Minister, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, brought it back. As we have yo-yoed backwards and forwards, there is no certainty that the dates the Minister mentioned, of the project coming on board towards the latter part of the next decade, are actually real. It requires the Minister to show some leadership and give a commitment on when the metro north and the DART east-west interconnector will be built. The reason he needs to do that now and to give some certainty and political support to it is because the building of houses has to be connected to where public transport will be. The alternative is the continuing sprawl of Dublin, which will feed more cars onto the M50, which will not work. Rather than throwing the ball back to the National Transport Authority, the Minister needs to show some sort of political commitment and leadership and crack the whip as a Minister in order that we can start the process rather than it remaining in limbo, which is where it has been for the past six months.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I would love to be able to do exactly what the Deputy says. I absolutely agree with him and I deeply regret that both the projects the Deputy referred to were delayed. One was delayed in 2015 and the other was postponed in 2010. The DART underground project was postponed in 2010. The Deputy should bear in mind that these were done with a heavy heart. I had no brief in Government at that time and no role in its decisions. The Deputy will understand the Government made these decisions for compelling reasons. It simply did not have the resources to do it. The original DART underground was going to cost €3 billion. It was postponed in 2010 for the very simple reason that we were in the middle of a financial crisis.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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It was in the four-year plan. The money was there and it was ready to go.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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Deputy Ryan might have been aware of that at the time and before. It was postponed but the imagination is still there and in 2015, it was reviewed and revived. The Deputy will be aware that the money was made available for it to be redesigned. We now have a situation where it has been redesigned but is less ambitious. That is probably more realistic. There is no tunnel involved in the plans at the moment but the commitment is still there. Similarly, the commitment is still there for the metro north as well. That was a €2.4 billion project originally but there simply were not the resources to do it at the time.

However, I believe the current realistic timetable of starting to build it in 2021, which seems a long way off, and finishing it in 2026 or 2027 should be welcomed, even if it is delayed.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The political waiting for this dates back to 2000. I was a member of the Dublin transport advisory committee at the time. A presentation was made which stated that the first priority in Dublin had to be the public transport projects and that the metro north and the DART interconnector had to be built before the M50 was widened, as otherwise there would just be sprawl around the road. A political decision was taken then, 16 years ago, to do the exact opposite and build the road first. I have just returned from the civic forum in the Royal Hospital Kilmainham where the talk from anybody involved in business was that it would not be possible to come to Dublin from London or anywhere else because the city cannot cope. Every British person is saying, "Do not go to Dublin because it is not working". Dublin Chamber of Commerce and others are crying out for the political leadership to state that Dublin will work and that the public transport will be built. The Minister cannot put it off for another year and say that the capital review will make the call as to whether to spend on roads in Ballyvourney or to spend the money in Ballymun. The Minister must show political leadership and say he will build public transport as the first priority. If he does not do that, this city will not get a chance to attract new housing and start working. We cannot wait another year because in that time the housing and investment decisions will go elsewhere.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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The mid-term capital review has been brought forward. One cannot simply wave a magic wand and say today that we will go ahead with the projects for which we do not have the money. That does not work and it will not happen. It is my ambition to do exactly as the Deputy says. I would love to see the imagination he has for transport in this city, which is to be commended, turned into reality, but I do not see it happening overnight. However, down the road and long after I have left, although the Deputy might still be here, I envisage Dublin city with a modern transport system if we stick to the current plan. Of course, that depends on prosperity and growth in the years to come. We must depend on that. We could be sent off course. Brexit could delay this even further, although I do not believe it will. One never knows, however, with these long-term capital projects. However, we are determined to set these projects in train now, according to that timetable. We are keeping to the timetable. We are redesigning both the metro north and the DART. We are committed to that, but not within the six month timetable which the Deputy seeks because we do not believe it is practical.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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We could start the application for the rail order. We have been working on this project for 17 years. More planning has been done on this than on the Apollo mission. Instead there is lots of "could have", "if", "but" and "maybe". In view of that, the investment community is correctly making the call that this is a country that does not believe in public transport and that this is a Government that does not give such a commitment. In the absence of that, it will not come to this country, we will not put housing in the right place and we will not have a sustainable city. The timetable starts with the Minister pressing the button, saying we will move now and starting the application for the rail orders. That is what he should do.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I agree with everything the Deputy says, except on the timetable. We do not have the money at present to commit to this. That is the reason the design stage is taking place now. When we get through the difficulties in the next few years, presumably we will have the cash to pay for these large capital projects. We cannot do it overnight - it is unrealistic - but we will do it in due course.