Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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3. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if his attention has been drawn to the issuing and amending of commercial bus licences on routes served by existing operators, a practice which has the potential to impact on the employment of 800 workers on the Expressway service; the actions he will take to rectify this situation and safeguard the employment of the workers; if he will convene a forum, inclusive of all stakeholders and as provided for in the 2009 Act, to discuss all aspects of State provision and funding for public transport in view of the importance of this issue; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32937/16]

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am asking the Minister about the issuing and amending of commercial bus licences on routes served by existing operators. This has the potential to impact the employment of 800 workers on the Expressway service. What action will the Minister take to rectify this situation and safeguard the employment of the workers? Will the Minister convene a consultative forum of all the relevant stakeholders to plan and discuss funding, reinvestment and the future of our public transport network?

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank Deputy Munster for the question. It is topical because of the critical situation in which Bus Éireann finds itself.

Since December 2010 the NTA has operated as the regulator of licensed bus services and all commercial operators must apply for a licence under the Public Transport Regulation Act 2009. I am unaware of the forum as referred to by the Deputy. It is worth noting that since 2010 the NTA has issued only five new licences in the intercity bus market. It has approved amendments to a further three licenses and refused eight applications for licences.

Last year, almost 28 million people travelled on licensed bus services, with over 7 million of those travelling on Bus Éireann Expressway services. Specifically, on the major intercity corridors, the annual number of passenger journeys rose by approximately 1 million between 2012 and 2015. However, that overall growth in passenger numbers and revenues is not being reflected in the Expressway operation and it has lost approximately 6% in passenger numbers since 2012. As a result, Expressway is loss-making and this, in turn, is affecting Bus Éireann's overall profit. Last year, the company as a whole lost approximately €5 million and this year the company forecasts losses of up to €6 million. Clearly, these losses are not sustainable and the company is required to address them.

I have been consistently clear since assuming office that issues relating to pay and conditions in any particular State-owned company under my Department's aegis are a matter for discussion and agreement between the employer and the employees.

The Deputy is aware that Bus Éireann has engaged consultants to review independently the options available to it as it seeks to address these aforementioned losses. That process is still going on. In addition, the Deputy is probably also aware that the company has indicated its desire to discuss the Expressway issue with trade unions. I am firmly of the belief that difficult issues such as this can only be resolved through open, constructive and realistic engagement between the company and its employees. A Programme for a Partnership Government commits to a review of public transport policy, and as an integral part of our public transport network, the commercial licensed bus market will come within the ambit of that overall policy review.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I know the Minister is aware that Expressway is our national carrier and these plans threaten to drive it to extinction. Since taking office the Minister has not even sought to convene a consultative forum with all the relevant stakeholders to discuss and plan not just the funding but the future of our public transport network. As an incoming Minister he did not see that as a relevant step.

Private companies can amend their contracts the day after being given them. They can drop the least profitable routes and some of the services on a particular day. This is not just a question of privatisation or profit. This should be regarded as a public service. It will result in a much poorer service. What will the Minister do to rectify this and to protect our national carrier? What steps will he take to convene a forum to discuss the future of our public transport network?

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy for her supplementary questions. It is very omniscient of her to be able to tell me what I have and have not thought about. She can tell me what I have said, not what I have thought about.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister has not done it.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I certainly have not done it. The idea of a consultative forum has merit. There are possibilities in having one. I want to be guaranteed that we do not have the kind of megaphone diplomacy that has been going on during the industrial relations problems we have at the moment. There are certain State bodies which deal with those. What was conspicuous in the last industrial dispute, in Dublin Bus, was that people were saying one thing publicly and another privately. That is the way industrial disputes are conducted in public but it would not be helpful to have a consultative process in the midst of that because all that would happen would be that, in the heat of industrial disputes, that forum would be used for other purposes.

When the other two companies have sorted out the difficulties in which they now find themselves, and which are well known to the Deputy, I will certainly consider having in a less heated atmosphere a consultative forum between all the parties and stakeholders involved. It does have merit, but in the present atmosphere of industrial differences, it would be wrong to do so.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the fact the Minister thinks there is merit in setting up the forum but it is a bit late doing so after the horse has bolted. Expressway is under threat of privatisation. What will the Minister do to rectify that? When Bus Éireann management met the Minister, it said that to continue with Expressway, it would have to be a low pay, low wage project and the Minister did not give an opinion either way. Either we protect our public transport network or we do not. Setting up a forum after Expressway has been extinguished is not good enough. Will the Minister explain what he intends to do to protect the Expressway service? Will he commit here and now to going ahead with the forum to discuss the future of our public transport network?

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I have already answered the Deputy's question. I will consider it.

Nobody in this House has a monopoly on sympathy for those whose jobs are threatened: no party, no group, no individual. We all have exactly the same sympathy. I do not want to address the operational issues faced by Bus Éireann but it is a company in an expanding market that last year lost €5 million and this year is heading for a loss of €6 million. That company obviously has very big problems. It receives no Exchequer funding. It is a commercial body and will continue to be one. There are only a couple of options open to it, and it is considering them and has employed consultants to consider them. It also has an appointment on 1 December with one of the State bodies which helps in these types of disputes. I will not be directly intervening in any operational matter being run by any of these companies, particularly a commercial company.