Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire Stáit. Tuigim nach bhfuil an tAire Oideachais agus Scileanna, Teachta Richard Bruton, in ann bheith anseo. Is trua sin mar seans go mbeadh níos mó eolais aige le déileáil leis an gceist seo, ach b'fhéidir go mbeidh an tAire Stáit in ann cuidiú linn leis an gceist. I wish to raise the matter of a school which should have had - and should have - Delivering Equality of Opportunities in Schools, DEIS status. I understand that DEIS is being reviewed at the moment. I guarantee that if the review was concluded and the school had to apply that it would fully comply with every single criterion that it might be required to satisfy. I say this because the school is due to lose a teacher as of next Friday and 5th and 6th classes will have to amalgamate. If the Minister of State or the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton had visited the school they would understand fully the context.

There are a number of reasons to ask the Minister for Education and Skills to intercede in this case to ensure that the teaching post is no longer under threat of being removed on Friday. The Minister should understand that these classrooms are very small rooms. I will return to the size later. The area in which the school is situated and from where the school's cohort of children come, has been identified by drugs task forces and by the DEIS system in the past, as having severe disadvantage. It is in this context that I believe the Minister for Education and Skills would allow the school to retain the teaching post to ensure that the children were not further overcrowded in the classrooms.

The figures are set out in the rules of the Department of Education and Skills but a strict adherence to those figures does nobody any favours unless they take the particular situation into account. I know the Minister of State might suggest that there is an appeals process but I do not believe that the Assumption Girls Primary School in Walkinstown was fully looked at when there were making the decision. I have been to the school on a number of occasions and I have visited recently. I saw for myself how overcrowded classrooms are. The Department's recommendation for the size of a classroom is 76 sq. m. If one visits the classrooms in the Assumption school the classrooms average around 46 sq. m. This means that the decision to remove a teacher will exacerbate an already overcrowded situation. I ask that this be taken into account.

I would also ask the Minister to consider the disadvantaged status of the areas in which the school cohort lives - areas which have a number of DEIS schools within them. The areas, and especially Dublin 8,10 and 12, have been identified by drugs task forces and partnerships as disadvantaged, which is recognised by virtually every Department and that should carry over into schools those children attend. It is not the case in this instance. I appeal to the Minister to reinvestigate this and to reinstate the teacher in the meantime.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I bring to the attention of the House the fact that three of the parents with daughters in the Assumption girls' school are in the Visitors Gallery. They have had a long day because this morning, in response to the fact that tomorrow they could lose their teacher and with the permission of the parents, there was a protest by the students outside the school. It was very emotional because they had been linked with the teacher for two months and created a proper bond with her. However, they are now being told that after next week, when they come back to school, there will be three classrooms rather than four and that they will be cramped into them. As noted by Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh, the recommended size of a classroom is 76 sq.m. The classrooms in the Assumption girls' school, which is old, are only 46.75 sq.m in size. We are talking about girls in fifth and sixth class who are growing and developing. They are not small children. This has to be a factor in the decision, but I do not know whether it has been taken into account.

Having spoken to some of the officials, it appears that the school needs to have 229 students. Those involved in it had thought it would have 234 students, as it was developing, but it did did not reach that number. It lost some children because families could not afford the rental prices in the area. They are victims of the housing crisis also. At 222 students, the school is down seven, while the official cut-off point is 229. If it was down by one student, would it still lose a teacher? There have be to be some criteria, but there cannot be a cold cut-off point. Other factors, particularly school classroom sizes, should also be taken into account. Futhermore, if there was a review, the school would probably fall under the DEIS umbrella.

I appeal to the Minister to review the situation. The matter has been submitted to the appeals board. The school originally applied for two extra teachers because it had developing school status. On 30 September, however, when it had to give the figures to the Department, it did not have the 229 students required. It then had a short time period within which to make an appeal and it appealed on the grounds of exceptional accommodation needs, but it was turned down and told it would lose this teacher which it so desperately needs. Up to 33 fifth and sixth class students will be stuck in a room 46.75 sq.m in size. Health and safety concerns and other considerations should be taken into account. Last year space in some of the classrooms was so tight that there was no room for volunteers to sit down beside students. They had to kneel beside them.

Will the Minister allow the school to retain the teacher for the eight months left in the school year and review the situation next year when it has been indicated that there will be more enrolments in the school? I hope the Minister will see sense and not take a clinical approach and cause the school to lose a teacher just because it is seven students down.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not trying to pull at people's heartstrings, rather I am trying to show the reality for the children in Walkinstown who are facing the loss of their teacher when I tell the House that I received a few emotional e-mails from them. Mika has told me that the school does not have the 230 students it had expected to have and that the fifth and sixth classes will be squished - a great word kids use - into one classroom. She says not everyone could manage to go to a private school or one that is further away from their area and that accommodation prices are getting higher and higher in the area. She says they could not blame the parents if they have to or want to move. She says one of their teachers will lose her job and that their education could be affected.

I received another e-mail from Gráinne. She says that, as a pupil with dyslexia, it will be hard for her to work with more students in her classroom and that her teacher will not be able to help her and the other sixth class girls as much. She says they will have confirmations this year and that it will be even harder for the teacher because she will have fifth and sixth class students in one small room. She says her school has very small classrooms which can barely fit the 23 girls in them and wonders what it will be like to have 32 girls in one small room.

People of my vintage look at photographs and remember the time when we were children. A teacher would have been in a sea of children because in the 1960s classes could had up to 50 children. Thank God, we have moved on since. However, here is a case in which the class size will increase from 23 to 28, 30 and 32 students when four classes become three. If the number of teachers is reduced from four to three, it will maximise the number of students in the classrooms.

On top of this, we have to think of the ages of the girls. They play camogie and musical instruments and attend dance classes and so on after school. They bring their gear with them and it is left in the classroom. Other Deputies have raised the health and safety issues, which are a concern. My concern is that three Deputies handed a letter to the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Richard Bruton, last week, appealing to him to think about this situation. I am sure it does not mean a thing to him because he is up to his eyeballs in dealing with the threatened ASTI strike. Furthermore, there is an official in Athlone who is ticking a box that the school has applied on exceptional accommodation needs grounds but that it does not fulfil the criteria and that, therefore, the teacher has to go. Ms O'Brien will have to leave the school on Friday and the girls are distraught, as are their parents. The girls should be heading into the mid-term break with a sense of glee and looking forward to Hallowe'en. Instead, they are massively disappointed.

I have a map to show to the House that was given to me by the principal. It depicts part of Dublin South-Central and the pink dots represent DEIS schools. The large black dot represents the Assumption girls' school. We can see that the area is full of DEIS schools, rightly so, because it is considered to be economically disadvantaged. As the Assumption girls' school does not have DEIS status, it always under scores in the pupil-teacher ratio. It is unfair that the officials in Athlone do not take the opportunity to send a cigire which is what we used to call them into the school to examine the space in which the children have to study and learn and the teachers have to work. This needs to be done with a sense of urgency. Can it be done and how can we do more to ensure it will be done? Anyone who visits the classrooms and sees the children and their teachers packed into them, with their gear, will realise this is not just about pleading for an extra teacher but a genuine health and safety issue. More importantly, the children deserve, as does everyone, including those mentioned by Mika who can afford to go to a private or another school, equal opportunity in education, but they are not getting it because someone in Athlone ticked the wrong box. Will there be an instruction to those in Athlone that someone should visit the school and listen to the case being made, rather than treating this as bits of paper on which to tick boxes?

Dara Murphy (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Bríd Smith and Joan Collins for raising the issue of the staffing of Assumption girls' school in Walkinstown and acknowledge that there are difficult issues involved. I know that in schools in my constituency and that of Deputy Jonathan O'Brien there is often a difficulty, particularly in areas with a high density of DEIS schools. Schools can have similar issues and not be designated as DEIS schools. I know, in particular, of the great work being done by parents' committees working in conjunction with school authorities.

The criteria used in the allocation of teaching posts are published annually and the key factor in determining the level of staffing resources provided in individual schools is the staffing schedule for the relevant school year and pupil enrolment, as the House will be aware, on 30 September of the previous year. The staffing schedule is an objective and transparent method in treating all schools equally in the allocation of classroom teachers. In budget 2016 a one point improvement in the primary staffing schedule was announced. This reduced the average pupil-teacher ratio to 27:1. The revised and improved staffing schedule and the circular outlining the staffing arrangements for schools are also available on the Department's website.

The new arrangements have been implemented for the 2016-17 school year. Prior to this year, classroom teachers were allocated to primary schools on the basis of an average pupil-teacher ratio of 28:1. The staffing arrangements also include the provision whereby schools experiencing rapid increases in enrolment can apply for additional permanent mainstream posts on developing grounds, using projected enrolment for the following September, in this case September 2016.

The school referred to by the Deputies was initially due, in accordance with the published staffing arrangements for the 2016-17 school year, to have seven classroom teachers based on its September 2015 enrolment of 182 pupils. The school applied for developing school status on the basis of a projected enrolment of 234 pupils for September 2016. On the basis of the projected enrolment, the school was granted approval for two developing posts on a provisional basis. These posts were approved up to 28 October, pending confirmation of the required enrolment achieved on 30 September 2016. The school achieved an actual enrolment of 228 on 30 September 2016. This enrolment is sufficient for the retention of one of the developing posts. As a result, the school will have a mainstream staffing of eight classroom teachers for the 2016-17 school year. As set out in the staffing arrangements, the second developing post which was provisionally approved pending confirmation of actual enrolments is, as the Deputies noted, due to be suppressed on 28 October 2016.

The staffing arrangements also provide for an appeals mechanism for schools to submit an appeal under certain criteria to an independent appeals board. The school submitted an appeal to the October meeting of the primary staffing appeals board. A school must demonstrate to the appeals board’s satisfaction the reasons an additional teaching post is warranted under criteria outlined in Circular 007/2016. Decisions are made by the appeals board on the basis of the information provided by the school. The primary staffing appeals board considered the appeal made by the school and was satisfied that the appeal put forward by the school did not unfortunately warrant a second teaching post in accordance with Circular 007/2016. The board of management of the school has been notified in this regard.

The primary staffing appeals board operates independently of the Minister for Education and Skills and its decision is final.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State has exceeded his time.

Dara Murphy (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Based on an enrolment of 222 pupils and taking into consideration the staffing schedule for the next school year-----

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State will have a further opportunity to contribute.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Regrettably, I was half expecting the Minister of State's reply. If the school was a DEIS school, the threshold or ratio would be lower, it would have access to the home-school liaison and school completion programmes, literacy and numeracy supports and other planning and professional supports. Not only does it not have access to such supports but it is due to lose a teacher unless the Minister agrees to intervene.

Three quarters of schools in the Dublin 8, 10 and 12 areas have DEIS status. Given what has happened in these communities for the past 30 or 40 years and perhaps even longer, all schools in these areas should have DEIS status. Anyone who is familiar with the Dublin 12 area in particular will understand the context and background of children in the area who attend the school in question.

A pupil-teacher ratio of 27:1 is not conducive to a good teaching outcome, as all Deputies who have served as their party spokespersons on education will accept. According to the Minister of State, the school's enrolment was six short of the figure required for a second additional teacher. He also indicated the school can apply again next year for an additional teacher. Next year will be too late for this year's sixth class, which will be forced to amalgamate.

The appeal letter issued by the board of management and principal states:

The combined 5th/6th class, would have to operate with so little space in horribly cramped, overcrowded conditions where their education would be seriously compromised, even jeopardised. Should a teacher be absent and a class need to be split among the remaining teachers, we will find ourselves unable to accommodate pupils safely with adequate supervision. Leaving children outside rooms, in corridors is simply not an option!

This is what the school will be forced to do if the Minister continues with the policy that was announced.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As Deputy Ó Snodaigh stated, Deputies were half expecting the reply from the Minister of State. However, I also expected a little more understanding of the position in which the Assumption girls primary school finds itself and possibly some ideas on how to address the issue. The Minister of State indicated that the pupil-teacher ratio currently stands at 27:1. Fifth and sixth year students in the school will be taught in classes of 33, 32, 31 or 30 pupils, depending on how the teachers decide to move them around. It is horrendous that such circumstances are being accepted. Members of the appeals board should visit the school and carry out an assessment to determine whether it has made the correct decision.

The school does not have DEIS status and does not have access to the supports associated with such status, which many other schools in the area enjoy. To some degree, the school envies other schools in the area for the supports they have, although it also wishes them well. Teachers must deal with young girls arriving at schools with basketball and hockey gear, a change of clothes and so on. I ask for an opportunity to meet the Minister in the next 24 hours. The additional teacher should be maintained at least until further discussions are held. Members of the appeals board should visit the school before making a final decision in the matter.

The school has a right to feel let down by the system and the State. To leave 32 or 33 young girls in classrooms of 46.73 sq. m. is horrendous. I ask the Minister to revert to us with a more positive statement, for example, to inform us that a meeting will be arranged in the school next week or two. The additional teacher must be retained, if possible.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In acknowledging that the Minister is not present, I find it difficult to accept that it is not a function of the Minister to interfere with the primary staffing appeals board or that the board's decision is final. That approach is a little harsh and begs the question as to why we have Ministers if they cannot intervene in crises that deserve immediate attention.

I ask the Minister of State to make clear to the Minister that the school did not appeal the decision on the basis that it was seeking DEIS status but on the grounds of exceptional accommodation difficulties. This issue, therefore, is one of health and safety. Any member of a trade union working in an ordinary workplace will be aware that guidelines apply to the space in which people work and that this has health and safety implications. According to the rules for national schools, space of 15 sq. ft. should be available to each person in a classroom. Should the class sizes in Assumption girls primary school increase to 32, 30 and 28 pupils per teacher and classroom, the space available to each child will be 5.16 sq. ft. This would breach national school rules. If the Department is prepared to live with breaches of its health and safety rules for children, perhaps we need to raise the matter with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Katherine Zappone, or appeal to the Ombudsman for Children. I expect circumstances to arise in which children's health and safety is put at risk as a result of a decision taken in the absence of a clear examination of what was asked.

I ask the Minister of State to indicate to the Minister that the school has written to him to find out why its appeal was rejected and why he does not accept that the school has a cast-iron case based on exceptional accommodation difficulties. He should also explain the rationale for his statement that the decision is final and this is the end of the story. That is not good enough. This is the 21st century and children in question who have much to gain and offer are being discriminated against. They are being impacted on by the housing crisis because families are moving out and are being further impacted on by the policies of the Department of Education and Skills which, as I have pointed out, is breaching its own rules.

Dara Murphy (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I fully empathise. All of us who are politicians, particularly those who represent disadvantaged areas with a significant number of DEIS schools, have experience of many such cases. The Government is aware of the difficulties and we are working through them. The Deputies have seen changes in the pupil-teacher ratio. As the country recovers, it is an absolute priority to ensure this will happen more in the future. I re-emphasise that the staffing arrangements process for schools is independent. It is important to respect both the independence of the appeals process and the application of staffing arrangements for schools generally, which have to be implemented in a fair and consistent manner. The primary staffing appeals board is independent of the Minister for Education and Skills and its decision is final. However, based on an enrolment of 222 pupils and taking into consideration the staffing schedule for the next school year, Assumption girls' school in Walkinstown will have an entitlement to eight classroom teaching posts, with effect from September 2017.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What about the children's situation now?