Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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11. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will provide an update on the latest developments in the corporate governance of An Post; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32285/16]

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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12. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources his views on the financial position of An Post; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32126/16]

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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As the Minister has lead responsibility for the corporate governance at An Post, I ask him to update us on the commitment in the programme for Government to secure the future of the post office network throughout the State.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has four minutes to reply.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Does Deputy Smith not introduce her question? I do not know what the procedure-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Only one Deputy is meant to introduce, but if Deputy Smith wants to say-----

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I wanted to ask a related but slightly different question about the viability of An Post. There are rumours in the air - rumours usually have some foundation to them - that it is possible that An Post is in trouble financially. I ask the Minister to make a statement on the matter.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 11 and 12 together. I thank both Deputies for tabling the questions.

As Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, I have responsibility for the postal sector, including the governance of An Post, to ensure the company is fully compliant with the code of practice for the governance of State bodies and the governance functions included in the statutory framework underpinning An Post.

Operational matters and the role of developing commercial strategies for the post office network are a matter for the board and the management of An Post and not one in which I, as Minister, have a statutory function.

It is Government policy that An Post remains a strong, viable company and in a position to provide a high quality, nationwide postal service and that it maintains a nationwide customer-focused network of post offices in the community. However, the postal sector as a whole is undergoing systemic change as a result of the growth of the digital economy. The continuing decline in mail volumes, combined with the ongoing impact of e-substitution on retail businesses transacted through the post office network, is a significant challenge for the company and has an impact on its financial well-being.

In recognition of the changing commercial environment within which An Post operates, my predecessor established the Post Office Network Business Development Group last year, the remit of which was to examine the potential from existing and new Government and commercial business that could be transacted through the post office network. The final report of the Post Office Network Business Development Group, which was published in January this year, represents an important step towards greater financial sustainability for the post office and the wider network. On foot of the reconfiguration of Government Departments earlier this year, responsibility for the post office network transferred to the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. In my role regarding the corporate governance of An Post, I have impressed upon the company the vital importance of giving its full support and assistance to the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, as work is progressed on bringing about new opportunities for the nationwide network of post offices.

Managing the scale of the challenge facing An Post will require a focus on innovation and new business models by the company as well as the development of new commercial strategies. In so far as the commercial and operational activities of the company are concerned, the board and management of the company are constantly working to ensure that the services the company provides are developed and delivered to meet the needs of its customers. As a shareholder, however, I have a strong interest in the commercial and financial position of the company and I regularly liaise with the company in this regard. The future sustainability of An Post and its relevance to consumers is recognised as an important priority for all involved.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The fact is that the Government has continuously dragged its heels in announcing a sustainable plan for the future of the post office network. The programme for Government committed to act swiftly on the recommendations of the Post Office Business Development Group and expand provision into such areas as motor tax and the new payment account system. The Minister is a signatory to the programme for Government. He entered into discussions with Fine Gael about the creation of a programme for Government. He represented rural Deputies, as a result of which he finds himself in Cabinet, so I do not accept that he can somehow wash his hands of responsibility to the post office network and just talk about the corporate responsibility, financial viability and position of An Post as the shareholder of the company. That is fine. That is his fiduciary duty as a Minister acting on behalf of the State as the shareholder. However, he is a signatory to the programme for Government and a Minister with a responsibility to the wider rural community based on his negotiations with Fine Gael. I put it to him that it is incumbent on him to act in good faith on behalf of the people of the rural areas who believed this Government was serious about acting in a manner that would protect the network as it currently exists.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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At the end of September, there were 1,127 outlets, comprising 51 company and 1,076 contract-operated post offices, and 113 postal agencies throughout the country. The implementation of the recommendations of the Post Office Development Network Group falls under the remit of the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Humphreys. However, I am conscious of the issues involved here. Deputy Dooley is correct that this issue affects rural and urban communities across this country, because the urban communities have lost their post office networks as well, but there will not be a post office network for anyone if we cannot secure the long-term financial viability of the overall company. The difficulty with the overall company is that it is managing a significant decline in mail volumes. Mail volumes have declined by 30% since 2009. The projected rate of fall in mail volumes between now and 2020 is 5% per annum. Every 1% drop represents a €5 million drop in revenue. The reality is that the post office network and the other commercial operations of the company are profitable and the mail sector is the one that is losing money.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I would like to respond to the Minister on the question of the post office network losing custom to e-business. That is true. There is no doubt that when one looks at one's letter box, one sees how much less is coming in. However, what the Minister has just said is like saying "I will split your head and give you a plaster" because at the same time as we acknowledge that e-business is taking over the actual post business, the Department of Social Protection has removed the option of payment of cheques through post offices. There is an insistence by many Government Departments that payments to them are made by bank draft rather than, as happened in the past, giving people the option of using a post office draft. Therefore, on the one hand, we are trying to keep the post offices viable and, on the other, Government Departments are removing business from them. Where is the progress on the recommendations made in the care model for a new model of community banking? When I lived in Germany there was a community bank called Sparkasse through which all workers got paid, regardless of where they lived. It had branches in every village, every town and every corner, and ordinary people used them all the time. They were basically a developed form of post office. Where is the investigation into bringing that kind of viability to An Post which would actually work and retain the post offices, both rural and urban?

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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First, I will pick up on the final point Deputy Smith made. She is right in saying we need to look at new innovative products that can be developed and marketed by An Post. The two big strengths An Post has are its name recognition and the fact that the organisation is trusted by the public, particularly older people. It also has a strength not only in its brand, but also its nationwide reach. It brings vans and postal workers to every single premises in Ireland five days a week, 52 weeks of the year.

It has been suggested that there is a question mark over the universal service provision, that is the five-day a week delivery to every address in the State. I want to make it crystal clear to everyone in the House and outside it that I will not be changing the designation of An Post as the universal service provider or changing the obligation to deliver post every single working day, as set out in section 16 of the Postal Services Act 2011.

We need to explore options such as the one Deputy Bríd Smith mentioned to ensure the long-term commercial viability of the company-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister will get back in.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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-----and using its assets to ensure we can bring in additional income.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Based on the rolling audit taking place among post offices and the reduction in transactions there is concern in rural communities that it will not be viable for many of the independent postmasters to continue to provide the service they are providing. I am sure the Minister would accept that the loss of the post office in such communities would signal the death knell of those communities and it would only be a matter of time before other services are hollowed out.

We need Government action to identify the kinds of State services that can be delivered through the post office network. There is no point in doing it when it is too late. As the post offices become less viable, once these people retire the positions will not be taken up by others and the long-term future of rural Ireland will be seriously eroded. Time is of the essence here.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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The Deputy is correct. This is why I was one of the few Members who bothered to make a submission to the Kerr report. In my submission I highlighted that point and gave specific examples of State business that is not currently going through the post office network and that could be put through that network. While there is a lot of wringing of hands over the post office network, it was disappointing that so few submissions were made by people in this House who seem to be concerned today over the viability of the post office network.

We need to look at new services that can be done there. The Deputy is correct that there is a reduction in the number of transactions within existing post office services. If we stand still they will continue to reduce and put further pressure on the viability of many of our sub-post offices. We need to look at new and additional services that ensure the State operates far more efficiently by diverting business-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister will get back in.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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-----through our post office network.

Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein)
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On a point of order, I had tabled a question regarding this issue affecting An Post. I was told it could not be taken and it was taken off the Question Paper. However, for the past ten minutes we have been discussing An Post.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I am only an Acting Chairman.

Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein)
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I know that.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I do not adjudicate on what is selected.

Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein)
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I appreciate that.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps the Deputy could take it up with the Ceann Comhairle's office.

Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein)
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I have taken it up with the Ceann Comhairle's office.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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These are Priority Questions.

Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein)
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There seems to be confusion over which Minister is dealing with the issue. I tabled the question to the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment and his Department came back indicating it could not take that question today during Question Time because it was not appropriate to this Minister. That is what he told the Ceann Comhairle's office.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I accept the Deputy's bona fides and I am not saying that he is not telling the truth. He will have to take it up with the Ceann Comhairle-----

Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein)
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I have taken it up with him.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----and with the Minister's office.

Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein)
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Perhaps the Minister could clarify, because there has been some confusion since the Government was formed regarding even the name of the Department. We had the term "communications, climate change and natural resources", and then "environment".

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I accept what the Deputy is saying.

Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein)
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It would be good to know for the future.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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To be fair to other Deputies who have questions selected today, we cannot get into it. I cannot change the decision that has been made.

Brian Stanley (Laois, Sinn Fein)
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I am being passed around the House on this, from the Questions Office to the Ceann Comhairle. I am asking now on the floor of the Dáil in whose Department is the issue of An Post being dealt with. Is it this Minister's Department or whose is it? My question was removed and I was not given the opportunity to table another one in its place, which I regard as unfair.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Bríd Smith has a minute to put her last question.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I repeat the point I am trying to make to which the Minister does not respond. It is not just a question of a falling volume of mail; that is being compounded by the insistence of Departments to reduce Government transactions in post offices. Together, these are putting huge pressure on the viability of An Post, while at the same time the Government insists that all these services be outsourced and liberalised. That cannot be done.

The third thing that kicked in here is the commitment in the programme for Government to investigate new models of community banking. The speed with which the State was able to respond to the banking collapse that led to a bailout of €64 billion by the citizens of the State was extraordinary. Overnight the Government could pass legislation to save those banks. Since the Government has been formed, to my knowledge there has been one meeting of the committee chaired by the Minister of State, Deputy Ring, and since then nothing has been done about it. There has been no update on investigating a simple form of community banking and my guess is that is because the big banks will not tolerate it. That is the kind of move we need in order to sustain the viability of this company. The foot-dragging is doing nobody any good.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister might allude to the point Deputy Stanley made.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I will, but I want to answer Deputy Bríd Smith because she has asked the question a few times. I apologise to her because I am trying to answer all the questions here.

There has been a difficulty with instructions given to various Departments which has at least not helped the maintenance of the volume of transactions through the post office network. I spoke directly to the Minister for Social Protection on the issue. As the Deputy will be aware, before the summer the Minister for Social Protection issued an instruction to his departmental staff regarding the use or not of the post office network. That has led to an improvement there.

Work is ongoing on the basic bank account. That will provide new and additional services to the post office network across the country. There is the opportunity to expand that along the lines the Deputy mentioned.

I believe there is an opportunity to outsource some administrative work, which is currently being done quite inefficiently in Departments, through the sub-post office network. That was the basis of the submission I made to the Bobby Kerr report. My submission is available online along with everything else.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I point out to Deputy Stanley that in my initial reply I laid out exactly the responsibility regarding my Department and my role as Minister as well as that of the Minister, Deputy Humphreys. That makes clear exactly who has responsibility for what. I have never been afraid to answer questions. I have tried to answer any question that was put to me today. I am quite willing to answer any questions tabled.