Dáil debates

Tuesday, 25 October 2016

Ceisteanna - Questions

European Council Meetings

4:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach the position regarding the contributions made by Prime Minister May at the October European Council meeting; if he had a bilateral with Prime Minister May; and the issues that were discussed [31634/16]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach if he discussed with British Prime Minister, Theresa May, matters relating to the North at the European Council meeting. [31699/16]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach if he had any discussions at the European Council meeting with regard to corporate tax reform. [31820/16]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach if he had discussions at the recent European Council meeting with his fellow Heads of Government regarding the implications of Brexit for Ireland, both North and South. [31981/16]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach if he had discussions with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May, at the recent European Council meeting regarding Brexit; and his views on whether this would result in a hard Border with Northern Ireland. [31982/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach the position regarding his contributions on Brexit at the EU Council meeting on 20 October 2016; and if any particular actions are being taken. [32047/16]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach if, during the recent European Council meeting, the opportunity arose to discuss the humanitarian crisis in Syria; and if a further opportunity arose to determine if any progress has been made in the resettlement of Syrian refugees in EU member states. [31983/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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11. To ask the Taoiseach if specific and targeted actions were taken to assist families and children, in particular, from war torn Aleppo at the European Council meeting on 20 October 2016; and if it was agreed to allow families to be accommodated in member states similar to actions taken in the past during previous wars. [32048/16]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 11, inclusive, together.

The meeting of the European Council which took place in Brussels on 20 and 21 October addressed a wide range of issues. The formal agenda included migration; external relations, specifically Russia and Syria; trade, including the EU-Canada Comprehensive Economic Trade Agreement, CETA, TTIP, the EU-Japan free trade agreement, and trade defence instruments; and a range of other global and economic issues.

Although the United Kingdom's decision to leave the European Union was not formally on the agenda for this meeting, Prime Minister Theresa May updated other EU leaders on recent developments in the UK as an information point. She confirmed that the decision to leave the EU is irreversible and that the UK will invoke Article 50 before the end of March next year. President Tusk welcomed the Prime Minister to her first meeting of the European Council, as did all other EU leaders. He reiterated the agreed principles that there will be no negotiations until Article 50 has been triggered and that access to the Single Market is linked to the four freedoms.

The future direction of the EU post-Brexit is a matter of ongoing consideration in accordance with the roadmap agreed at the Bratislava summit on 16 September. I did not have any scheduled bilateral meetings at this meeting of the European Council. However, I had informal exchanges with a number of my counterparts, including Prime Minister May and Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, during the course of discussions and in the margins of the meeting. At every appropriate opportunity in my exchanges, I made it my priority to emphasise and explain Ireland’s particular concerns in relation to Northern Ireland, Border and citizenship issues, the common travel area, and the interconnectedness of our economies. The implications for Ireland are of the utmost seriousness and while there is an appreciation of this among EU partners, it is imperative that we continue to stress our particular position.

Corporation tax reform was not discussed at this meeting of the European Council. As I mentioned, the appalling situation in Syria was on the agenda for the meeting, as was our relationship with Russia. The European Council was united in its total condemnation of the attacks by the Syrian regime and its allies, notably Russia, on civilians in Aleppo. Efforts to assist refugees from the Syrian conflict were also reviewed. While no new actions were agreed in regard to families from Aleppo, Ireland, along with other EU member states, is participating in the EU measures agreed last September to take in Syrian refugees.

The meeting will be the subject of a full debate in the House, as are all scheduled meetings of the European Council, tomorrow afternoon.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I tabled two questions in this group. On the presentation made to the European Council by the British Prime Minister, Theresa May, media reports indicate the Prime Minister was asked to speak for five minutes at the end of a five hour session, that no one said anything in response to her contribution and business was adjourned for the evening at that point. This reflects badly on everybody at the meeting and suggests there is a continued policy of throwing shapes in both directions, rather than getting down to substance and debating issues. It is hardly credible that a British Prime Minister's contribution to a European Council meeting would be met by silence around the table and the adjournment of the meeting. Is there any engagement?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No, that is-----

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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No interruptions, please.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I note also the comments made by the Scottish First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, who cleverly stated she could not be accused, as she had been, of undermining the United Kingdom's negotiating strategy simple because no one knows what is that strategy. The phoney war must end. A great deal of sniping is taking place and there is much uncertainty, as the Taoiseach stated. I indicated, as per the reports of the Department of Finance, that very serious issues arise for Irish business, jobs and industry. It is time to get down to business and start negotiations. Given that the Prime Minister has indicated when Article 50 will be triggered, there is no need for further drift or acrimony. Substantial work can get under way and we should move away from the megaphone negotiations that are the order of the day. As I indicated earlier, the noises from Brussels and Britain are not good or constructive.

Did the Taoiseach specifically ask the Prime Minister the reason the Northern Secretary has been excluded from the main Brexit committee, yet the Tory Party chairman is on the committee? This is appalling and a clear indication of a lack of respect.

Europe is divided again on Russia and Russian sanctions.

Will the Taoiseach indicate what developments took place at the European Council regarding the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, and will the agreement be debated in the House? Brexit was about moving out of a free trade scenario. Everyone wants to have access to the Single Market, yet there appears to be horror at the prospect of a trade deal with Canada. There may be issues surrounding CETA but these should be debated in the Dáil because the last time I checked, it was in the best interests of Ireland to have an open trading policy to sell our goods and services abroad to create jobs at home.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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We must move on.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That seems to have gone out the window with all the hysteria and hype around CETA. Will the Taoiseach indicate if we can have a debate on the issue in order that both sides of the argument will be articulated in the House?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Did the Taoiseach take the opportunity to remind the British Prime Minister of her obligations under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement in respect of all the rights and entitlements that are contained in the Agreement? Did he ask her about the British Government's intention to replace the Human Rights Act? Many of the protocols in the Good Friday Agreement are based on various European conventions. Did the Taoiseach ask the British Prime Minister about the reasons the British Government is not co-operating with the legacy process agreed at Stormont House two years ago? While I appreciate the Irish Government has co-operated on incidents that took place in south Armagh and an inquest that was outstanding, the British Government needs to be persuaded to set aside its narrow self-interest in relation to blocking legacy requests.

I have twice asked the Taoiseach a direct question in this Chamber which he failed to answer. I will ask it again. The British Government has claimed there is an agreement between it and the Government to have immigration control into Britain in place in Irish ports and airports. This is a simple, straightforward matter. Either there is such an arrangement, in which case the Taoiseach must tell us what it is, or there is not. Clarity is needed on this issue and the Dáil must be informed of what is going on.

I listened to the various contributions in the House, some entertaining and some interesting, as Deputies tried to figure out what the British are doing and what European Union leaders are doing. I am more concerned about what we are doing because I am not encouraged and did not receive any assurance that we are truly approaching the issue of Brexit from an all-island perspective and the viewpoint of genuine national interest. Different sectors in the North are looking for leadership from the Government in Dublin. I am referring to people who may have an entirely different position on the constitutional issue but wish to remain in the European Union. Did the Taoiseach take the opportunity to say to the British Prime Minister that is also the Government's position, as he has told this Chamber?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is amazing that one issue has not been remarked upon in the whole discussion on the implications for this country of Brexit and it is an issue on which I want to understand fully the Government's position. While there has been much lamenting of the impact of currency fluctuation on certain sectors of the economy, it is not remarked upon that currency fluctuation is a result of currency speculation. Speculators are speculating against the British currency, which is why fluctuations are taking place. It is remarkable that, one the one hand, the Government is pleading that Brexit is having a bad effect on Ireland, the main one being currency fluctuation which is a result of financial speculation while, on the other hand, the same Government states it wants to act as a vulture by pulling more financial speculators from the city of London into the IFSC.

4 o’clock

It is precisely that policy of a competitive race to encourage and induce the speculators that is leading to the fluctuations that are wrecking sections of the Irish economy. It shows the absolute madness of our position.

4:10 pm

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy's time is up.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I would be keen to know what the EU actually says to the Taoiseach about our whole approach on corporate tax, a stance which I would characterise as plain old piracy. We have been involved in tax piracy and Britain was our main ally in defending our position on this. Now that Britain has pulled out of the EU we are in a very awkward position because it was our main ally in imposing things like the financial transactions tax. Is the lesson of this precisely that we need a financial transactions tax, which the Government resists, and we need serious reform of the corporate tax area, because it is this stuff that is destabilising our economy and the wider European economy?

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should conclude.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I will be brief. The Taoiseach mentioned the Syrian refugees. A project will be unveiled tomorrow by the Irish campaign, Not On Our Watch. ICTU is sponsoring the briefing tomorrow morning and I encourage the Taoiseach to send representatives to it. The specific ask by this campaign in regard to Syrian refugees and unaccompanied minors more generally in the camps is that we would take in 200 unaccompanied minors in a specific measure to help these young people.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I must move on.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Will the Taoiseach support that initiative, which is an Irish equivalent of the Dubs amendment?

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Has the Department of the Taoiseach or any other part of the Government recalculated revised estimates of the economic impact of the greater devaluation of sterling in terms of the budget and of planning in regard to the capital programme, given all of these will be greatly impacted?

As I go around talking to people, I speak to many in the retail trade who have complex import-export arrangements in regard to buying their products from Britain and who cannot instantly source them from France. I am talking about retail companies that are in business a very long time, in particular small-scale businesses. No information of any kind is available from the Government to help or guide them. These are people in business a long time who work hard but the Government has made no information available to that kind of traditional business. If the Taoiseach takes a walk around Dublin, he will come across those kinds of shops in any ten-minute walk.

When I asked the Taoiseach a couple of weeks ago, he was highly confident Mr. Barnier was going to have a very high level Irish person in his cabinet. The way the Taoiseach spoke, it appeared he was going to announce the name of that person and that he was to be part of that cabinet almost immediately. Weeks have passed since the Taoiseach promised that and we have heard absolutely zilch.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach is a person of his word. He and I reached an amicable agreement many months ago that 4,000 refugees in families and with children would be accepted by Ireland and that this was an appropriate gesture taken by Ireland, given the calamity in regard to Syria and other migrant crises.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should conclude.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach may have seen the article by Sr. Stan-----

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am looking for the same time as the other speakers.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has had more time.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach may have seen the article by Sr. Stan in The Irish Timesthis morning, full of goodwill for a Government action of which at the moment we are seeing almost nothing.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy has the next question, she is eating into her own time.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Where are the Taoiseach's officials? I know Tusla is supposed to have gone to Greece to find the child refugees who are definitely there.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy. I am asking you to conclude.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Honestly, can the Taoiseach really stand so idly by? He reached an honourable agreement with me on numbers.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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You have had more time than the other speakers. As the next question is in your name, you are eating into your own time. I ask for the Taoiseach's co-operation in giving a short reply.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes. In respect of Deputy Burton's question, the task force set up by Mr. Barnier is not a task force of very high level people. Ireland will be represented on that task force and the important point to remember is that the presence on that task force will give us a constant and accurate feed of information in respect of the issues that are coming before the task force, but in respect of which political decisions and oversight decisions will only be made by the European Council. There were some 300 applications for the position and there are 20 to 25 on it, and Ireland is represented on that.

Second, the comments made in respect of the pound-----

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach give the name and rank of the official?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----have led to a strengthening and weakening of sterling. As the Deputy knows, every time a statement is made about a hard Brexit, a soft Brexit, withdrawing from the Single Market or withdrawing from the customs union, it has impacted on the fluctuation of sterling. While we do not have any control over that, some measures were announced in the budget such as extra finance for Enterprise Ireland, extra personnel and new programmes for the development of new markets so we can continue to be very competitive.

In respect of refugees, officials from the Department of Justice and Equality have been in Greece looking specifically at the question of unaccompanied children, and they are probably now back with evidence of that. A problem was that the Italians would not accept that some security checks should be done on those wishing to be brought to Ireland or to any other country, and that caused a real problem in Italy. It has been ironed out somewhat but it is still very slow. Things are moving better in respect of the Greek situation and, as I said, our people have been there. I read Sr. Stan's document today and I will come back to her.

In response to Deputy Boyd Barrett, who is no longer present, the Government this morning looked at the question of actively promoting Ireland as a competitor to receive the European Banking Authority and the European Medicines Agency, both of which it would be very appropriate to assign to this country. However, there is competition from other countries.

The Deputy mentioned the corporation tax rate and pointed out that Britain will no longer be a member. The corporate tax rate does not depend upon allies: it depends upon the treaties. It is enshrined in the treaties and that is our business.

There will be a debate on CETA. It is a mixed agreement and there must be a debate and approval by each parliament.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We should debate it in advance.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It took them a while, given they are seven years at it.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I mean that we should debate it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We will have a debate.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach should conclude.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin raised a very important point about the meeting. He has not been at these meetings - to date, anyway.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have, in the pre-Lisbon days.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The meeting began with a presentation from the President of the European Parliament, as is normal procedure. They then go off and have their picture taken. There is then a round table discussion about issues such as migration. Prime Minister May spoke eloquently and well on a number of occasions at that meeting - she intervened on a number of occasions, as was appropriate. Afterwards, they went off to have their meal. In the course of the discussions around that table, she updated the European Council on the situation in so far as Brexit is concerned.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you, Taoiseach.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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She spoke eloquently and well, and it was received in that way. There was not any intention that it be otherwise. The meeting continued for four or five hours after that.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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We have to move on.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There was no discussion about her contribution.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It was just a verbal update. It was not a discussion about Brexit. If it was, it would still be going on.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It was just a verbal update, then a silence.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I ask Members to calm down. We will move on to Question No. 12 from Deputy Burton.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Gabh mo leithscéal.

4:20 pm

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I am not allowing any further discussion.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I asked the Taoiseach three questions; he never answered one.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy may take that up with the Ceann Comhairle or whoever. We must proceed to Question No. 12, in the name of Deputy Burton.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I had 37 seconds to answer all the questions asked, including those of Deputy Adams. I will have to come back to that one for him.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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He did not answer the hard ones.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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We gave the Taoiseach a bit more. We shall proceed to Deputy Burton's question.