Dáil debates

Wednesday, 5 October 2016

Ceisteanna - Questions

Cabinet Committee Meetings

1:15 pm

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach when the last meeting of the Cabinet committee on European affairs took place. [28290/16]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Cabinet committee on European affairs was re-established by the Government on 23 May 2016 and met on 21 June 2016, prior to the June European Council. The next meeting of the committee will take place on 17 October.

The purpose of the committee is to discuss and to shape Ireland's strategic approach to our EU engagement. The committee will continue to work to ensure a coherent approach across all policy areas, particularly on priority issues for Ireland and, above all, to anchor Ireland's influence and interests in Brussels. This strategic approach at EU level will continue to include engagement at bilateral level with fellow member states and alliance building with key partners.

I would add that the EU negotiations on Brexit will be overseen by a separate new Cabinet committee, which met on 8 September. The committee will meet again before this month's European Council in Brussels.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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Has the Cabinet committee discussed the growing momentum towards a significant further step in the militarisation of the European Union in the context of Brexit, which has, according to one source who comes from an EU state with a large defence industry, created a "new situation" but that "we are just at the beginning of the process" and that talks could go on for "years to come"? He or she is explicitly talking about that process of further military integration.

We have a joint proposal from Germany and France which proposes the establishment of an EU military headquarters. According to the EU Observer, "The paper added that a core group of EU states could launch the new security policy", and "In one suggestion, it also declared the political intention to create 'an authentically European esprit de corps' by joint training of military officers.", and "spoke of other projects, such as making EU 'tactical groups' ready to go into action, sharing military satellite imagery, and joint procurement of high-end technology". The proposals also included a joint EU defence budget, shared military surveillance and joint procurement. The Italian Government has gone even further, calling for a "powerful and usable European Force that can also be employed in support to Nato or UN operations". That covers France, Germany and Italy.

In the recent state of the Union address to the European Parliament by the President of the European Commission, Mr. Juncker, the points on so-called defence, in reality militarisation, are quite striking. He stated:

Europe needs to toughen up. Nowhere is this truer than in our defence policy.

Europe can no longer afford to piggy-back on the military might of others or let France alone defend its honour in Mali.

As if that is what France is defending in Mali. Mr. Juncker added:

For European defence to be strong, the European defence industry needs to innovate. That is why we will propose before the end of the year a European Defence Fund, to turbo boost research and innovation.

This is a bloc that currently spends €200 billion a year on investment in research and development of weapons which are designed to kill and maim people. What is important is that Mr. Juncker stated, "The Lisbon Treaty enables those Member States who wish, to pool their defence capabilities in the form of a permanent structured cooperation." This drive towards further militarisation will be carried out under the title of permanent structured co-operation, a provision introduced by the Lisbon treaty. People will remember that the Lisbon treaty apparently had nothing to do with militarisation. The straw man of conscription into European armies was knocked down.

1 o’clock

This is happening. They are driving towards further militarisation in the context of Brexit. What is the Government's position? Has it discussed that at a sub-committee? What position did the Minister for Defence take at the meeting in Bratislava at which these matters were discussed?

1:20 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for those questions. Obviously, security is a central issue of serious concern to the European Union as a whole and we need to respond to that in a coherent and pragmatic way, using the full range of tools - diplomatic, economic development, peace support, etc. - available. Strengthening the EU's peacekeeping capacity and support of the United Nations will be an integral part of the effort to support international peace and security and that will be done through the further development of the common security and defence policy, as defined in the European Union treaties. We contribute actively to that, including commanding EU operations in Chad and Somalia, and we are prepared to engage in further development of this in support of international peace and security, as provided for under the European Union treaties.

At the Bratislava meeting on 16 September, the Heads of State and Government of the 27 member states held a broad debate on the key priorities for the coming months. The President of the European Council and the President of the Council of the European Commission proposed a programme known as the Bratislava roadmap and that addressed several areas, including security and defence. Obviously, security and defence will be discussed in the context of the EU global strategy in the coming months. That strategy on foreign and security policy recognises the need to invest more in conflict resolution and to tackle the root causes of instability. We discussed this yesterday to some degree in respect of the catastrophe unfolding before our eyes in Aleppo. What will be involved here will be a mix of coherent EU policies to support international peace and economic development and to help build state and societal capacity on the rule of law, human rights and governance. Strengthening the EU's peacekeeping capacity in support of the UN will be an integral part of that. This will be done through the further development of the common security and defence policy, as defined in the EU treaties.

There are different views among the 28 member states on how to progress the security and defence aspect of European defence. Ireland, along with a number of other member states, favours practical co-operation in support of international peace and security in crisis management. There is a general understanding that to be effective in this and to deliver a proper response to different crises, we need to make progress across all elements of that global strategy and not just in the area of security and defence.

Suggestions have been made about a proposal that has been around for some time that the EU should establish a joint operational headquarters to support the planning and conduct of its civil and military operations. A permanent joint civil military operational headquarters, appropriately configured, could potentially deliver a more effective and responsive common security and defence policy operations in support of UN and international peace and security, a position which this country supports. However, this is a matter for the EU members states, including Ireland, and it is a matter that will be considered in the context of the implementation plan for the recently published EU global strategy for foreign and security policy, and we will participate fully in that.

There are no suggestions for a European army. The Irish protocol to the Lisbon treaty clearly states that the Treaty of Lisbon does not provide for the creation of a European army.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. After eight years of economic and political crisis, the European Union is now faced with a lengthy crisis about its future direction, not only in the context of Brexit but also in regard to its respect for shared values and rules.

In recent weeks, a range of senior politicians, as Deputy Paul Murphy stated, in member states and institutions have begun talking about changes to treaties and legislation. Ireland cannot stay on the sidelines; we need to set out our policies. For example, we should be very clear in telling President Juncker that there is no public demand or benefit concerning his proposal for focusing on military capabilities. What we need is a reform which addresses the core lack of capacity in the European Union which would assist in increasing much needed economic growth. Did the Taoiseach have any direct contact with President Juncker or any other senior person in the Commission at Council or Commission level on President Juncker's proposals for changes in the EU?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They are part of the discussions that take place all the time.

I spoke at the meeting in Bratislava about the reasons we should be optimistic about the future of the European Union. It will require political decisions of the 27 member states. The European Central Bank can only do so much in terms of interest rates and buying up paper and all of that. There are decisions that must be taken by Europe if we are to move forward as 27 member states with almost 500 million people. The Juncker plan was one in terms of investment in major pieces of infrastructure. Perhaps it has not been taken up to the extent that it should have been and has not applied to smaller countries like Ireland in the way it might have. It is an issue I have raised with him.

We also had the question of public-private partnerships for investment and how they were being assessed by the EUROSTAT independent office. Following difficulties we were having here, I wrote to the President of the European Commission and circulated it to all the other leaders and I am glad to say movement is being made on it. It will allow for off-balance sheet investment for major pieces of infrastructure, including housing in some countries, which will be to everybody's benefit. These things are discussed on a regular basis. Getting consensus on where we want to be in five, ten or 20 years is the difficulty.

1:30 pm

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is aware that we are at least nominally militarily neutral. The concerns raised about military capacity, obscene levels of spending and a growing symbiotic relationship with NATO are points that are well and fairly made and factually based. They have been rehearsed before. How is it, despite the suggestion of lots of people, including us in Sinn Féin, the Taoiseach has never pursued a protocol in respect of the militarily neutral states within the European Union? How come he has never challenged the militarisation agenda? Perhaps he has but I am not aware of it.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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On the Cabinet sub-committee on Brexit, will the Taoiseach accept that the overriding priority of the civic dialogue he proposes with the Government and Oireachtas must be to advocate on behalf of the remain vote in the North and that it should be the structure and context in which this sub-committee and all other discussions are framed?

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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We will be discussing Brexit at the next-----

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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One of our priorities, which I said at the meeting yesterday evening, is the support from Europe for the peace process. We also have a real responsibility here to the many thousands of small firms that export over €7 billion into the United Kingdom. The currency fluctuations are already causing difficulty there. We have to deal with a range of priorities as part of the Brexit discussions. The Deputy will be kept fully informed of that.

I answered questions this morning on the work going on between the Department of Finance, the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland to provide a range of supports for small and medium enterprises that export directly to Britain. This morning, Enterprise Ireland has people from all over the world out in the RDS talking about new opportunities in new markets in America, Canada, Europe and places beyond.

We are militarily neutral as Deputy McDonald said. Our participation in the Common Security and Defence Policy is prohibited by Article 29.4.9 of the Constitution. That protection is reinforced by the Irish protocol in the Lisbon treaty which was voted upon by the people and can only be changed by the people. We are very proud that members of our Defence Forces operate as a support in terms of humanitarian or peacekeeping missions in a number of locations. They do so exceptionally professionally but strictly within the confines of the European Union Treaties and the triple lock. That will remain the position.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The Green Party supports the various calls here today for us to reaffirm that our position in the European Union is to uphold a tradition of neutrality and the peacekeeping work we have done down through the years. Has the Taoiseach come under any pressure to increase the defence budget? Apart from the constitutional arrangements, is there any pressure coming from Europe to increase our spending on defence as part of a wider aim to do that within the Union?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The answer is "No" to Deputy Ryan's question. There has been no pressure placed on us to increase spending. As I said in my earlier reply, we take a very practical view of how we can assist in terms of support and we operate within the confines of the regulations that everybody adheres to.

The matter was discussed at the plenary meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council that took place in Dublin Castle on 4 July 2016 and at a sectoral meeting of the special EU programmes body that took place in Iveagh House on 7 July 2016. I know that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister of Finance, Máirtín Ó Muilleoir, agreed to write jointly to the European Commissioner for Regional Policy, Corina Creţu. That work is continuing and I am aware that officials of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform are continuing to engage with the Minister of Finance's officials, the special EU programmes body and the European Commission to establish the basis on which programmes will be allowed to continue to be implemented. Both the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister of Finance have also been in touch.

While there are complex financial, technical and legal issues that need to be worked through, I assure Deputy McDonald that, in this regard, the Government's commitment to the successful implementation of the programmes is total. They are an essential and critical part of what we need to discuss in changing circumstances arising from the peace process and the support from Europe for these very important programmes, not just here but indeed in Scotland.

1:50 pm

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I very much welcome the initiative to establish the summit and to look at the trade issue first. Will the Taoiseach consider using that sectoral approach and having one on the free movement of people, one on security issues and one on the environment? It is a potential way that could evolve given it is so difficult because there are so many issues at play here.

What we are facing is probably the most protracted and difficult negotiations with the British Government. The only example I can think of is the Home Rule negotiations at the end of the 19th century and the start of the 20th century. It is at that level of complexity. Added to that is the fact that, like them, we have deep divisions in Northern Ireland where it looks like it will be very difficult to get political agreement on whatever approach we want to take as an island.

In those circumstances and given that the British Government has been following a deluded and deeply flawed path to try to become an unregulated state, a pirate state that will try to get the best of both worlds, is it not time for us as a friend, because one can only say this as a friend, to tell it the approach it is taking will be deeply damaging to all sides? Is it not time for us to say to the British Prime Minister that the British Government's disregard for the island of Ireland question in the way she presented her intention to trigger Article 50 is a very bad sign and that she must stop and take a different approach if we are going to get some sort of outcome out of this process that will not be deeply damaging to the people of Great Britain and Ireland, North and South?

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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My question relates to corporation tax rates. After the Brexit referendum, the former British Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne, announced plans to slash the UK corporation tax rate from 20% to below 15%. On BBC Radio Ulster on 5 July 2016, the Minister of Finance, Máirtín Ó Muilleoir, referred to this in light of the plans by the Northern Ireland Executive to reduce the corporation tax rate in Northern Ireland to 12.5% by 2018. The Minister said, "I think he has put a horse and carriage through our policy." He then referred to the need to consider a different strategy involving reducing the corporation tax rate even further.

In this House, we often speak about the race to the bottom and Sinn Féin Deputies often raise their voices against it, but here we have a Sinn Féin finance minister positively embracing the race to the bottom, slavishly copying British Tory Party policy and promoting the notion of a bidding war whereby tax for multinational corporations would be slashed at a time when profits are sky high and public services are crying out for investment. Was this issue raised at the recent British-Irish Council and, if so, what was discussed? Will the Taoiseach give a commitment to the House that he will not enter into a bidding war of this type?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Quite a number of issues were raised at the British-Irish Council. I cannot recall this issue being raised but I will check the minutes of the meeting for Deputy Barry. I can confirm that it has been very clear for a very long time and enshrined in European treaties that tax matters are a matter for the individual competence of each country. We set out our corporation tax rate at 12.5% many years and we are not changing that. It is not going up and it is not going down.

However, in recognition of the right of any country to move its tax rate, we did support a situation whereby the much higher British tax rate might be lowered in Northern Ireland to make the island of Ireland a more attractive economic entity in its overall context for foreign direct investment. The former British Prime Minister devolved that authority to the Northern Ireland Executive if it wished to implement it and that is what it decided to do. In the run up to the referendum, the former Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne, said that the British Government might reduce the corporation rate in Great Britain to boost the economy. We are not entering any bidding war. Our rate is 12.5% and will remain so.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I asked the Taoiseach whether he would consider further strands. They could vary.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I already made the point that this was not a result that we wanted but it is one we must accept because it is a democratic decision of the electorate of England, Northern Ireland Scotland and Wales. We will have differences of opinion with the British Government regarding matters that will probably arise in respect of Brexit, but we are committed to the common travel area and no return to a hard Border and we want to maintain the trading links we have with Great Britain. A total of 200,000 jobs here are dependent on exports to Britain and similarly from Great Britain. We will remain a member of the EU. I discussed this with Deputy Ryan yesterday evening. Clearly, we have a lot of negotiating to do to protect our vital national interests and we intend to meet that challenge head on.