Dáil debates

Wednesday, 28 September 2016

7:10 pm

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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17. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if she will report on her recent meeting with the UK Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [27388/16]

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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My question relates to the Tánaiste's recent meeting with the UK Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union. For all of us the preservation of the common travel area between Ireland and the UK, which has existed since the foundation of the State, is vital given the benefits that accrue from it. That there are 300 formal Border crossing points and many more informal ones indicates the scale and complexity of the issue. Was this raised during her meeting and will she make a statement on the matter?

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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This is a critical in the new scenario we face where the UK voted to leave the EU. Of course enormous issues arise from that, not least the consequences for the common travel area. I spent a good part of today in Enniskillen at a North-South conference on organised crime. I met the Northern Ireland, Minister for Justice, Ms Sugden, MLA, and we discussed in detail the implications of the Brexit vote for North-South relations, for east-west relations and for the common travel area. Both of us are involved in carrying out audits within our Departments of the areas that will be impacted. For example, in Northern Ireland, 18 pieces of legislation on civil and family matters will be impacted by Brexit where the domestic and the international legislation will have to be examined and the need for change identified in detail.

We had a detailed discussion in the meeting with the Secretary of State, Mr. David Davis, MP, on his recent visit here. We looked at the common travel area, police and judicial co-operation, North-South security co-operation, and data sharing and judicial co-operation on civil matters. Given that the relations at a political and policing level have never been as good, North and South, this is a very good basis. Thanks to the work of people from Deputy O'Loughlin's party and my party on the peace process over the years, the relationships are very good. It is a very good foundation for us to deal with these complex issues.

Everybody has made it clear that we want to see the common travel area maintained. We have yet to discuss in detail precisely how that will be done. Of course, we will now be the border for the EU. We will have North-South and east-west discussions as well as, of course, discussions with Ministers from other EU member states. My Department and other Departments have to work through a huge amount of detail. The Taoiseach has established a Brexit committee to deal with this.

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge, as the Tánaiste said, the good relationship between the PSNI and the Garda, and between the relevant Departments. While the British Government has made positive statements that there will be no return to a hard Border, the UK's desire to limit immigration may certainly create difficulties in that regard. If the UK wishes to prevent immigration to the UK through the Republic, there is a very real possibility that it would need to introduce passport control on Border routes. If EU nationals no longer have the same free-movement rights in both countries, the land Border between the Republic and Northern Ireland could become a weak point in the UK's ability to control EU immigration. How confident is the Tánaiste that the British Government is genuinely committed to the common travel area? To what extent is it a priority for it?

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Any statements made to date by the UK make it clear that it wishes to maintain the common travel area. The common travel area arrangements do not just cover travel without a passport, but also cover, for example, the right of a citizen of the country concerned to travel and work or go to a university. It is the job of the Government to ensure that our EU partners understand the particular issue relating to Northern Ireland, the Border and, of course, the peace process, which has to be maintained - nothing should be seen as a threat to that.

The Deputy rightly raises the issue of immigration matters and travel across the islands. In our meeting with the Secretary of State, Mr. David Davis, MP, the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, and I both reiterated the importance of maintaining the common travel area. Detailed issues need to be addressed. The UK Government is at an early point in identifying its approaches. Article 50 has not yet been triggered and probably will not be until January or February. There will be considerable detailed work to ensure there is no return to the so-called hard Border. That is certainly our position on the island of Ireland.

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I agree that we all have a role to play in dealing with our partner countries in the EU to ensure that they have a positive say in terms of our relationship with, particularly, Northern Ireland. However, what Brexit means in practice remains unclear. The signals are that there is very strong pressure for a hard Brexit. Next week the Brexit hardliners are likely to ramp this up further at the Tory Party conference.

The UK trade Secretary, Dr. Liam Fox, MP, has made it clear that he wants to see Britain outside the customs union. I am interested in hearing the Tánaiste's view on how a withdrawal from the customs union can be compatible with an invisible Border.

7:20 pm

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Various statements have been made, including that to which Deputy O'Loughlin refers, in regard to the customs union but it is not the stated position of the UK Government at this point. The common travel area is central to the relationships across these islands. There is no question of that, with very clear benefits enjoyed by both communities. That arrangement is valued equally, North and South. It will be a priority for both Administrations to ensure its benefits are retained in the years to come in the context of the new relationship. That is the position the Irish Government will be taking, no doubt supported by Fianna Fáil. I cannot pretend to the House that Brexit will not pose very complex challenges; it will but we have to do all that we can to reduce any potential adverse affects for all the people of the island.

Even at this point, there are a number of areas on which work is continuing, including the recent signing into law of a new statutory instrument to enable the UK to collect advance passenger information in respect of flights from Ireland to the UK. There is a huge increase in co-operation across a whole range of areas, particularly in regard to advance passenger information and immigration issues such as sham marriages and those who would illegally enter this country, their visas having expired in the UK. There are many areas in respect of which co-operation is ongoing between both countries.