Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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25. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the implications Brexit will have for Irish defence policy; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27242/16]

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps the Minister will make a statement on the implications of Brexit for Irish defence policy.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The outcome of the vote of 23 June 2016 in the UK will have implications across all aspects of the business of the European Union. While the vote does not give rise to fundamental strategic issues for Defence Forces operations or for Ireland’s continuing engagement within the EU in the Common Security and Defence Policy, CSDP, it is expected that Brexit will have an impact on future developments in the defence sphere at EU level.

Within the EU, defence issues are a national competence and any decisions require unanimity. Ireland will continue to have a strong and equal voice on defence issues within the EU institutions. The treaties require that the EU respects the specific and different policies of member states in the area of security and defence, and that will not change. The impact of Brexit may result in a changed dynamic at EU level. However, until the UK has indicated what type of relationship it will seek with the EU and negotiations have been finalised, it is impossible to predict possible outcomes.

We have many long standing defence connections with the UK, not least in the area of personnel training and information exchanges on capability development, tactics and procedures. These are of a bilateral nature and are reflected in our memorandum of understanding with the UK on defence and security co-operation and will thus be unaffected by the recent referendum result. Meetings take place between senior officials at which issues of mutual interest are discussed.

The Deputy will appreciate that the UK has not yet left the EU and withdrawal negotiations cannot begin until Article 50 has been triggered by the UK. Negotiations will probably take at least two years to complete and all potential consequences of the vote will remain the subject of ongoing consideration in my Department. As the Deputy will be aware, the Government has adopted a contingency framework to deal with all issues arising in respect of the UK vote to leave the EU. Accordingly, any issues arising, including those within the defence area, whether bilateral or in respect of developments in CSDP or regarding our wider international multilateral defence engagements, will be addressed within that framework.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The signs at this point are that Britain might be heading for a hard Brexit, exiting the Single Market and the customs union in doing so. Ending freedom of movement across borders also appears to be a key priority for the new Prime Minister. At the very least we must accept the possibility that there might have to be a hard border in place. It is something we must explore and for which we must prepare. Obviously, we hope not to see this. Nobody wishes to return to those days. However, how does the Department of Defence anticipate this impacting on the Defence Forces? What additional security matters might arise? Has the Minister examined how this would impact on our Defence Forces' resources and capabilities? If he has not done so, why not and when does he propose to do it?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy will be aware that the Department of the Taoiseach has established a specific departmental committee to deal with Brexit. If the Defence Forces are to be involved in a hard border, that would be a matter of aid to the civil power and it would be a matter for An Garda Síochána to seek assistance from Army personnel or the Defence Forces in that regard. The Deputy might have heard the Taoiseach say earlier that he believes that neither Britain nor Ireland wants a hard border. They do not wish to return to the Border days. We cannot really piece together exactly what Britain will do until it invokes Article 50. However, my Department will give its input to the Department of the Taoiseach and to the group it has set up, with a specific Secretary General, to deal with Brexit. The Taoiseach has already asked each Department to give its input to this group.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I asked the Minister if he has examined how this will impact the Defence Forces' resources and capabilities and I will take it from his reply that he has not yet done that. He is proposing to feed into the Department of the Taoiseach and its overall committee on Brexit.

The Minister's response is quite insufficient. We cannot wait around. I appreciate that we do not know how or when Britain will exit the European Union but we must at least be ready for it. We must be realistic about the possibility of there being a hard border. Whether we like it or not, being a member of the European Union that borders a non-EU country brings with it certain responsibilities. It will not just be up to Ireland to decide how that works. I suggest to the Minister of State that his Department really examine what resources the Defence Forces will need and and how the arrangement may operate. Nobody wants to go there but we have to be prepared to react if what is possible occurs. It is massively insufficient at this point that the Minister has not acted in this regard.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I assure the Deputy that I have had plenty of meetings on Brexit and the outcome of the vote. However, it is way too early to determine exactly the extent, if any, of the role of the Defence Forces. If I were to tell the Deputy today that we are to take on another 3,000 soldiers, I assure her that she would go out the door straightaway to say we are preparing for a hard border. This is absolutely not the case. It is way too early to determine the outcome of any discussion on any border, be it hard or soft. I assure the Deputy that the Government and this side of the House are well prepared for Brexit. The Taoiseach has already had a bilateral discussion with the new UK Prime Minister, Prime Minister May. I have also had conversations with my counterpart in the United Kingdom, Mr. Michael Fallon, during a recent meeting abroad. The matter was raised. Mr. Fallon told me it is way too early to determine exactly the outcome on a hard or soft border, or the implications for the Irish Defence Forces or British Army. It is way too early. Let us-----

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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It is never too early for planning.

An Leas-Cheann-Comhairle:

We are encroaching on the time of other Members.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I assure the Deputy that this is a priority for me and my Department. We will be on top of this issue to ensure we do whatever is required. However, I will not jump to any conclusions regarding what will be required in regard to the Defence Forces.