Dáil debates

Tuesday, 27 September 2016

Ceisteanna - Questions

UK Referendum on EU Membership

4:30 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach the restructuring plans in his Department to deal with Brexit; the way these changes will relate to other Departments, particularly the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; the reporting relationships and the recruitment plans for same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26581/16]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach the progress that has been made in considering the implications of Brexit for Ireland, North and South. [27229/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach the dates and attendance at meetings of his Department's task force on Brexit; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27309/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach if he plans to publish a strategy for Ireland and the way it can benefit most from the opportunities the Brexit result presents for Ireland; the way in which Ireland will increase its presence in other EU markets to increase exports and intensify trade arrangements; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27311/16]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 10, inclusive, together.

Structural changes to the workings of government are required to ensure an effective whole-of-government response to the challenges ahead. I recently chaired the first meeting of a new Cabinet committee on Brexit that will oversee the overall Government response, including the economic impact and the negotiations at EU level and with the administrations in London and Belfast. It will be supported in its work by a senior officials group on Brexit which will build on the work undertaken by the interdepartmental group on EU-UK affairs. A second Secretary General has been appointed to lead a new integrated division within my Department with responsibility for EU, Northern Ireland, British-Irish and international affairs. The appointment is part of a series of actions I announced following the referendum, including the strengthening of the EU policy role of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, as well as the strengthening of other key Departments, agencies and overseas missions. This will be complemented by existing structures, including the Cabinet committee on EU affairs and the EU senior officials group which supports it and a consultative group of external stakeholders, including ICTU, IBEC and other business representative groups and relevant NGOs.

As regards the likely impact of Brexit on Ireland, North and South, the Government is being kept fully briefed on developments and reviewing key issues relating to contingency planning and preparation for negotiations on an ongoing basis. All Departments are deepening their analysis of the likely impact of the United Kingdom's decision and continue to develop risk analysis and contingency plans.

The Government believes there is a need for the widest possible conversation on the implications of the referendum result for Ireland, North and South, and North-South relations and we will put forward in the coming weeks our ideas on how we can best do this. In July the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, briefed members of the Export Trade Council on the formulation of a new successor policy to the trade, tourism and investment strategy which will be accelerated in the light of the UK referendum result.  "Trading Better" will set out a coherent medium-term plan for the period 2017 to 2021 to enhance and improve how we support Irish exports and investment. In addition, Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland are in close contact with their clients on the challenges and opportunities presented by the referendum result. They have extended their schedule of trade missions. IDA Ireland will continue to promote the attractiveness of Ireland as a location of choice for mobile international investment and talented people and seek to maximise opportunities that might arise. This is based on our unique competitive strengths - now being seventh in the world - and our position as an English-speaking nation in Europe and the eurozone. Enterprise Ireland is intensifying its efforts to support companies to respond to the new situation and implement medium-term market diversification plans.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach stated he had recently attended a Cabinet meeting.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I chaired it.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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How many Cabinet committee meetings on Brexit have taken place? In Question No. 9 I ask the Taoiseach for the dates and attendance at meetings of his Department's task force on Brexit. Perhaps he might forward the details to me or indicate if the information is attached to the reply.

The role of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, in terms of its relationship with the Department of the Taoiseach, in dealing with the Brexit issue was not articulated clearly in the Taoiseach's reply. I pointed out earlier that the British Government was recruiting approximately 300 people, including trade negotiators and so on. The detail involved is enormous and I am still not clear on whether we have in place a plan for recruitment. We did have a meeting on the issue at the time of the Brexit decision during which the Taoiseach pointed to the possible recruitment of staff to embassies and I indicated the need for a strengthening of embassies across EU capitals and in key areas, including the British embassy and the Irish Embassy in London. Is there an overall number of personnel that we will be recruiting specifically to provide expertise to assist the Government in its negotiations on Brexit? Will the budget provide for a specific "Brexit allocation" to cover staffing, the number of personnel required and the overall national effort in dealing with Brexit? It is essential that we have some clarity on that issue. To be frank, our current strengths are not sufficient to deal with the detail of what is involved. This is not just about trade which in itself is extraordinarily detailed. In the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation there are only a small number of personnel involved in the area of trade policy and enterprise. On the side of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, it is usually the embassies that engage in trade promotion, but the numbers are very low given the enormity of the task involved. I am worried that we have not grasped the enormity of the task and that we are not preparing adequately for it.

In addition to the recruitment of personnel, has the Taoiseach considered appointing a Minister with exclusive responsibility for managing and co-ordinating the Government's efforts in dealing with Brexit, devoid of other responsibilities a Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade or a Minister with responsibility for European affairs invariably would have and so on? It is important we have someone to dot the i's and cross the t's in our preparations for and ultimately the conduct of the negotiations. It is a vast task covering research and development, SMEs, trade and so on which is going to take up an enormous amount of time. During a presentation last week by Mr. John McGrane of the Irish Chamber of Commerce he told us that what we were witnessing was the calm before the storm. Once Brexit is triggered, there will be many consequences.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach expand on the expected role he identified for key senior Irish officials on the European Commission Brexit team which, as he said, will conduct most of the negotiations? Has he considered appointing a personal envoy? That official could be a senior diplomat or a politician with senior status. I personally do not think the meetings that are happening which inevitably are not detailed but cover a lot of territory are sufficient in pursuing our interests as a country. I detected from before the summer a considerable softening in the Taoiseach's replies on his stance on the issue of a hard border. It seems to be a matter up for discussion.

On the role of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, those involved will be professional diplomats. Brexit, above all else, will be a monumental exercise in diplomatic negotiations, with politicians, by and large, coming in towards the end. A number of staff have been transferred from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to the Department of the Taoiseach. Professional diplomacy, including among the ambassadors of the 27 member states resident in the Republic, including the United Kingdom, is equally important. As has been said by several Ministers, the view in Europe is that Ireland is an add-on to the British decision on Brexit. I do not believe the Taoiseach is stating clearly and strongly enough that we do not want to see a hard border: it is not acceptable and would not be workable for us.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I assure the Deputy that I have no intention of standing for the return of a hard border; neither does the British Prime Minister. I am not sure from where the Deputy got the view that my position on the issue had softened. I have made my position very clear and do so again now.

On the appointment of a personal envoy, I did give consideration to appointing a Minister with responsibility for dealing with Brexit.

Every Minister and Minister of State has a responsibility because they are all tied up in it one way or the other. While the Cabinet committee I chair generally comprises senior Ministers, they will all be called because they all have a responsibility. That is why I have asked all of them to have intensive discussions with their counterparts in the context of the forthcoming North-South Ministerial Council in order that we can get a fix on this issue. The majority of our personnel in Brussels who conducted the Presidency at the start of 2013 are still there. We will have access to the negotiations and discussions taking place and will know what is happening.

4:40 pm

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will they be members of the negotiating teams?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will give the details to Deputy Micheál Martin of the changes that have taken place.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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How many Cabinet committee meetings have been held?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have had discussions about this issue at the Cabinet. We have had one or two meetings of the Cabinet committee which has only been established in recent weeks. I will clarify the detail for the Deputy and the numbers and discussions that have taken place.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Was it one or two?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will have meetings on a regular basis.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I presume there has been one.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We do not have anything like the number of personnel Britain will have, but we have support from ICTU, IBEC and NGOs. As this develops and we form an opinion for the month of November, it will be important that we have an agreed position as to what we should look for because we still do not know and will not know for some time what the British Government will look for. Our interests must be protected, including our links with the United Kingdom and the European Union. I explained in Bratislava to some of the leaders that it was difficult to get the concept if asked by Lithuania, Estonia, Slovakia or Slovenia about the relationship between Ireland and the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales. It is important that we continue to explain just how particular is our relationship with these countries.