John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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13. To ask the Minister for Social Protection if he is aware of the ongoing issues persons are facing when referred to Turas Nua and Seetec through JobPath; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18760/16]

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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The 37,871 people involved in the Turas Nua and Seetec programmes have experienced a nightmare. The figures came from the Minister's Department this week. The issues being faced highlight the vast holes in the Government's job activation measures. Persons selected for the JobPath programme are prohibited from taking part in job activation schemes such as the community employment and part-time job incentive schemes, job clubs and local employment services. They cannot participate in forms of training other than those supplied by the relevant private companies Seetec and Turas Nua. Is the Minister aware of the ongoing issues with Turas Nua and Seetec and will he make a statement on the matter?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The JobPath companies Turas Nua and Seetec have considerable experience in successfully delivering employment services. They are very conscious of the challenges faced by people who have been unemployed for a long time and the need to provide suitable supports for such persons to help them back into work. Thus far, approximately 38,000 people have been referred to JobPath and the response has been extremely positive. Relative to the number of clients referred, very few issues have been raised at this point. Only 53 complaints have been recorded, which represents 0.14% of referrals. The majority of complaints were about people's initial reluctance to engage with the service or in respect of individual customer service experiences where people felt they were not properly treated by the officers involved. Other issues related to logistical and operational policy matters such as travel arrangements and difficulties attending appointments. All complaints are taken seriously and most have either been resolved or are in the process of being resolved.

JobPath is providing activation resources to supplement and augment the Department's own in-house activation resources. The contracts with the JobPath companies stipulate a significant number of requirements which both Turas Nua and Seetec must meet. The contracts have an in-built service guarantee which means that each jobseeker is guaranteed a baseline level of service, including frequency of meetings with personal advisers, a transparent complaints process and a range of individual supports. The companies provide a copy of their service statements for each participant at the initial engagement stage. They are subject to regular checks and on-site inspections by the Department to ensure they are delivering on their contractual obligations. Failure to deliver on contractual commitments, including customer service commitments, can result in penalties being applied to the companies.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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5 o’clock

I thank the Minister. I am hearing on the ground that some people have been waiting for places on other job activation schemes. One man I spoke with in my constituency had been out of work for a considerable period. On his own initiative, he applied for and was offered a place on a community employment, CE, scheme as a staff artist, but he had been contacted by JobPath and was locked into it. It would not allow him to take up direct and immediate employment via the CE position. He was forced to continue with JobPath. Other issues arise. A participant who was selected for JobPath was forced to pay €120 for a Safe Pass out of the person's own pocket even though the individual had limited funding.

Will the Minister address these issues and examine the serious anomalies in the system that block people from taking up alternative employment immediately?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy has pointed out, nearly 40,000 people have been referred to JobPath, of whom thousands have managed to get employment. I do not doubt that there are individuals who have had bad experiences. In some cases, this is because the engagement is a tense one. When people have been on the carousel of CE schemes, training and more CE schemes, getting one-to-one attention is a significant change. However, it is largely to the benefit of most.

If the Deputy wants to give me the details of the Safe Pass case, I will have them examined. Someone should not be required to pay for a Safe Pass, in particular if he or she is on a social welfare payment. Payment of €120 is a considerable amount of money for someone who is on a little more than €180 per week.

We want people to get jobs. If someone can get one through JobPath, it is better than being on a CE scheme or JobBridge placement. A small number of people may prefer to be on either of the latter or Tús than being in a real job, but that is not something we should encourage.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister's faith in these companies' ability to deliver results is astounding. He has defended them. They have been in place for nearly a year and there will be a review, but consider places like Britain where payment-by-result initiatives have been operated by some of the same companies. Only 4% of people who engage in them go on to long-term, secure employment with clients. This must be borne in mind. There is evidence that a number of the companies, such as Seetec, engage in cherrypicking. In the United Kingdom, this is renowned as creaming and parking. As the companies receive payments based on results, they are picking easy targets that allow them to achieve instant results while parking other cases that are perceived as being more problematic in that regard. There is evidence that this practice is creeping into Ireland. This is my serious concern with the privatisation of this area. The matter must be examined. Is the Minister aware of these issues and, if so, will he address them?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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If the Deputy has solid or empirical evidence of creaming or cherrypicking, my officials and I would like to see and study it. To avoid cherrypicking, we have included the use of PEX scores in contracts. People are assessed by departmental officials and assigned scores based on the likelihood of their finding jobs on their own at the top of the scale to having great difficulty finding jobs at the bottom of the scale. This control prevents cherrypicking. If the Deputy has empirical evidence to the contrary, we would be happy to see it, as it would allow us to reduce the payments.