Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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4. To ask the Minister for Social Protection if he will cease issuing letters to persons in receipt of social protection payments urging them to receive payments through the bank instead of the post office; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18978/16]

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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First, I want to declare that I am postmaster of a small post office in County Kerry. I want to ask the Minister the same question I asked his predecessor, Deputy Joan Burton, during her term in office. Will the Minister strictly direct the people working in his Department to stop sending out letters to social welfare recipients, asking them to give details of a bank account so they can be paid directly into the bank and not through the post office network?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The programme for Government clearly states the Government’s commitment to actively encouraging payments at post offices. While responsibility for An Post and the post office network rests with my colleague, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, I want to highlight the size of my Department’s business with An Post, which was over 38 million transactions across the network in 2015, at a cost of €54 million to the taxpayer.

I recently had a constructive meeting with the Irish Postmasters' Union and will be meeting Bobby Kerr next week. A few weeks ago my Department wrote to a cohort of jobseeker customers, who are classified as casual jobseekers, offering the option of payment into a bank account. These customers are in work and claim a jobseeker's payment for two to three days per week, or work week on, week off. They were paid by cheque each week due to the changing nature of their work and claiming patterns and the short turnaround time to issue and collect payments. This group of customers was not paid by post offices under the Department’s existing cash payments contract with An Post, although I expect many of them cashed their cheques in the post office. The vast majority have responded and opted for payment to a bank account.

I can confirm to the Deputy that no further letters are being issued to this group. My Department has developed its payment capacity in respect of changing work and claiming patterns, and is offering payments direct to accounts in financial institutions for casual jobseeker customers. This is in line with departmental policy where the focus is on ensuring that in-work customers are paid by the most convenient method possible.

I want to assure the Deputy that my Department will no longer take any measures which seek to actively influence customer choice in the manner of payment away from cash payments at the post office, rather, customer choice will be facilitated. In light of the programme for Government commitment, staff in my Department will be formally advised by circular next month that, when dealing with payment options, customers can choose between payment at the post office or by electronic funds transfer, EFT, where possible, and will not be encouraged to move to a bank.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I appreciate the Minister's response. He is new in the Department and I do not blame him personally. However, now that he is in the position, it is very important he is proactive in the way he has said he will be. I greatly appreciate that.

Although people might not realise it, at present a review is carried out every three months on the remuneration received by post offices, and they get paid based on the number of transactions. Every post office that is coming up for review is having its income dramatically reduced. I have consistently said over recent years - this is not scaremongering but a fact - that 700 post offices will close down in the next three years. It is not the big, bad Government that is going to close them - the postmasters will close them themselves because their income will not be enough to keep their doors open. I know this because I am in the business myself and know the income is very small and it costs a lot of money to keep the doors open. If we lose the post offices from our villages and towns, that will be the last thing to go, given we have lost the small shops and pubs. It is within the gift of the Government, if it is proactive in the way the Minister says it will be-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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We will allow the Minister to reply. The Deputy can come in again.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Both the Deputy and the Irish Postmasters Union have given me copies of correspondence with customers which, in my view, did encourage them to move to the bank without giving them an equal option of using the post office. That is why those letters have stopped. A circular will go to staff in the next week or two advising them to make sure that, in any correspondence, they give people the option of using both the post office and a bank account.

4 o’clock

We need to bear in mind that ultimately it is down to the choice of the person and that 70% of those reaching pension age now want to have the money paid into their bank. When I was a kid, I used to go to the post office in Blanchardstown with my mum to pick up what was then the children's allowance. These days the vast majority of women are in work and want to have the money paid into their bank accounts. They do not want to have to go to the post office. Thankfully, the number of job seekers is falling and this downward trend in the real modern world will continue. We will certainly not actively encourage people to opt for EFT over the post office, but it will not stop the downward trend.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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May I take it that if the Department will be writing out and stating the options, the first option will be An Post? Is it okay to assume this? That is very important. I appreciate that we must all allow for free choice, but people do not realise post offices use modern technology to keep up to date with what is required. We really must fight for survival. I know of people who were reviewed in recent days and have seen their income decreased by €5,000 for €6,000 per annum. This will make their post offices unviable. That is why it was so upsetting to see the letters. I met senior departmental officials recently and they told me there might have been what was described as an overzealous idea to get people to accept payment through the banks. If the Minister is now directing them to stop this, I really appreciate and respect it. That is the type of proactive measure I would expect from him.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I will have to come back to the Deputy on the order on the form because I am not sure we can change all forms. In principle, I have no difficulty with the post office being the first option and the bank or electronic transfer being the second, as long as the customer chooses. Ultimately, it is his or her choice. I will be very firm on this point and I am sure the Deputy will keep in touch with me on it. It is useful for me to see what is sent to customers. If these things do not happen, or if things do not change in the way to which I have committed, I will rely on the Deputy and the Irish Postmasters Union to let me know.